Comparing DAW sound engines

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Comparing DAW sound engines

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selig
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If you load a sound into fl studio, render it, reverse its polarity and then play them both you get complete silence, this means fl does nothing to the sound. If there is a difference between the sound in cubase and the sound in fl studio it's to do with settings and not the "sound engine".

edit by thechronic: this thread has been split off from:
Nuendo and FL Studio - a good combo?

This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by selig: 30-08-2008 02:39.

29-08-2008 16:12

thechronic thechronic is a male

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There are differences between the audio engines that the DAW's use. Big differences.

I'm not convinced that outputting a mono file twice with one of them phase reversed is proof that all these engines are equal. I mean if any sound engine would NOT be able to do this most basic and simple thing, then it would be seriously badly programmed.

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29-08-2008 16:29

Sentinel Sentinel is a male

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Wow now we talking equations !?

HaHa.

I agree on sound output between DAWs being different.
I've tried quite a few of the DAWs available.

Was it you BD or HP that gave examples in another post of what the different programs sound output was !?

Reason = Digital
Cubase|Nuendo|Logic Pro = Crystal
Ableton Live = Crystal
FL Studio = Warm

Don't think ProTools was mentioned or shitty Renoise.
I'd think ProTools should be pretty good quality too though !?

But then again saying all that there's plenty of pro sounding tunes on here made in both Reason and/or FL Studio as well as all the other DAWs. Big Grin

29-08-2008 16:59

selig
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quote:

Originally posted by thechronic
I'm not convinced that outputting a mono file twice with one of them phase reversed is proof that all these engines are equal. I mean if any sound engine would NOT be able to do this most basic and simple thing, then it would be seriously badly programmed.

I do agree, what I should have wrote was that if you load a sound into fl and render a copy you'll get silence if you invert the phase and play it back with the original. Which basically means that fl's "sound engine" doesn't alter the sound in any way shape or form. It's not fl's fault if somebody cant get a decent mix down with it, and switching daws wont help one bit.

29-08-2008 17:39

BattleDrone BattleDrone is a male

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quote:

Originally posted by selig
If you load 2 copies of a sound into fl studio and reverse the polarity of one and then play them both you get complete silence, this means fl does nothing to the sound. If there is a difference between the sound in cubase and the sound in fl studio it's to do with settings and not the "sound engine".

I think your test doesn't prove what you are trying to prove here.

You prove that the mixing engine is capable of performing maths in a correct way and reach zero by subtracting 2 equal values and then send them through the rest of the mixing engine, but it is only by having values greater than zero that the mixing engine can show it's true identity.

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30-08-2008 00:03

selig
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quote:

Originally posted by BattleDrone
You prove that the mixing engine is capable of performing maths in a correct way and reach zero by subtracting 2 equal values and then send them through the rest of the mixing engine, but it is only by having values greater than zero that the mixing engine can show it's true identity.

I didn't explain myself properly in that post, please read my post after it.

Interestingly enough somebody at reaper decided to test all the top daws and cubase and nuendo actually came off worse, they were the only ones incapable of making an exact copy of what was played into it...

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?s...=summing+engine

This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by selig: 30-08-2008 02:37.

30-08-2008 02:31

m-ej

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i have noticed a few daw's that have slighty different sound engines,
sonar7 seems flat to me,
fruity loops seems a lil bit fuller,
havent listened to any steinberg stuff as my set up wont run cubase or nuendo,
sony acid is getting there with its engine.
but ableton live 7 did rework it audio engine from live 6, its a bit more hi end shall we say, and a lil bit more fuller,sparkely even.
but i guess its all down to the person whos got to work with the programme in the 1st place, if you dont like the sound of something you woludnt work with it just because it can do triple piked back flips.

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14-09-2008 10:44

Muad'Dib Muad'Dib is a male

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I guess it really depends on the effects supplied with each DAW. If we take a test .wav file and render it out with all the DAWs (without any effects/processing), wouldn't it come off the same?!

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14-09-2008 11:41

selig
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quote:

Originally posted by Muad'Dib
I guess it really depends on the effects supplied with each DAW. If we take a test .wav file and render it out with all the DAWs (without any effects/processing), shouldn't it come off the same?!

I'd imagine so, if not you're using a crap daw... or an old hardware sampler. Big Grin

IMO the differences between most daw's "sound engines" is more to do with the effects and pitch shifting/time stretching algorithms they use than anything else... for example a sample played in shortcircuit should sound just the same in either fl or cubase, provided the settings in both daws are the same.... or am I missing something here?

14-09-2008 14:11

Muad'Dib Muad'Dib is a male

Andrejnalin

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quote:

Originally posted by selig
... or am I missing something here?

Maybe the quality of the mixer programmed inside, but I doubt this would be the deciding point on most quality DAWs (Reason, Cubase, FL Studio, Logic, Ableton...).

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14-09-2008 15:54

BattleDrone BattleDrone is a male

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To test this correctly you should be able to write a script in the DAW or automate the proces and then repeat it 1000 times.

Make new tune, load sample, bounce, make new tune, load the bounced sample, bounce,...

after 1000 cycles you would clearly notice any introduced changes to the sample if any would be made by the daw. By just doing this one time you would need to compare source and result bitwise.

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14-09-2008 23:44

thechronic thechronic is a male

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quote:

Originally posted by Muad'Dib

quote:

Originally posted by selig
... or am I missing something here?

Maybe the quality of the mixer programmed inside, but I doubt this would be the deciding point on most quality DAWs (Reason, Cubase, FL Studio, Logic, Ableton...).

The way the mixing engine is implemented makes the difference. There are many different ways to do the calculations to achieve a certain result. Each DAW have their own methods to deal with things like panning, phase shifts, EQ.
The biggest problem in digital audio is phase, every calculation you do takes a certain amount of time, and causes latency. If you have latency differences between tracks you get phase shifts. How to deal with this is up to the programmers of the DAW.

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15-09-2008 09:39

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