Digital Cause 
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02-12-2007 01:05 |
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Wood.
Producer
Registration Date: 29-07-2007
Posts: 70
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02-12-2007 11:30 |
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BattleDrone
2161... the future.
Registration Date: 30-12-2005
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Good lesson for some peeps who believe that the whole track should be maximum loudness.
Good find 
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02-12-2007 12:22 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
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yea, well that's life, louder is louder. i try to throw in some quiter parts or even silence, and it helps make loudness. but then people will complain it wasn't balls-to-the-wall loud non-stop.
to be honest, back int eh day if you have an awsome sound systnem you can turn it up to fucking 4 and it would be ear bleeding loud.
now the fucking kids listen to it on an iPod that barly has the wattage to give it out at half the fucking volume to even hear the crappy music because they give the msot inadiquet ear pieces that block out no sound and leak most of the sound.
so either you make a mini pre-amp for your headhpones, or you mix your music balls-to-0the-wall LOUD. which is PREFFERED, unless you're some sort of music audiophile, in which case, i cater to the lowest common denominator. most people will listent o music on portable then on a good high-fi stero. fuck it's an mp3, it's gunna sound like shit anyways.
that song was the fucking Paul McCartny. it was probably recorded on a fucking record!!!! who the fuck plays records,DJ's? and what level of volume do they go for? set the speakers on fire?! yea, so no need to ahve the "dynamics" there!!!
basicly, these arguments are from old people. kids now and days WANT the music to be likes this,a nd do not give a a fuck. it's harder to make amix that sounds good and balls-to-the-wall then to amke a mix like the old days. louder is better, it is more compatable with mroe siuations.
when you're in the care and listening to the radio they have a big multi-band-compressor do that exact thing he's complaing to every song, this si why you don't even care, and why listneing to the radio is so good, becasue it makes even thoes shitty as quit songs from the 70's be loud like nomrla muisc now and days.
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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Halph-Price: 02-12-2007 16:01.
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02-12-2007 15:39 |
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BattleDrone
2161... the future.
Registration Date: 30-12-2005
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People will complain, no matter what.
You might just nail their balls to the wall 
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02-12-2007 15:52 |
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-J-
Big Bad Battyman
Registration Date: 15-11-2002
Posts: 1,043
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Halph-Price
yea, well that's life, louder is louder. i try to throw in some quiter parts or even silence, and it helps make loudness. but then people will complain it wasn't balls-to-the-wall loud non-stop.
to be honest, back int eh day if you have an awsome sound systnem you can turn it up to fucking 4 and it would be ear bleeding loud.
now the fucking kids listen to it on an iPod that barly has the wattage to give it out at half the fucking volume to even hear the crappy music because they give the msot inadiquet ear pieces that block out no sound and leak most of the sound.
so either you make a mini pre-amp for your headhpones, or you mix your music balls-to-0the-wall LOUD. which is PREFFERED, unless you're some sort of music audiophile, in which case, i cater to the lowest common denominator. most people will listent o music on portable then on a good high-fi stero. fuck it's an mp3, it's gunna sound like shit anyways.
that song was the fucking Paul McCartny. it was probably recorded on a fucking record!!!! who the fuck plays records,DJ's? and what level of volume do they go for? set the speakers on fire?! yea, so no need to ahve the "dynamics" there!!!
basicly, these arguments are from old people. kids now and days WANT the music to be likes this,a nd do not give a a fuck. it's harder to make amix that sounds good and balls-to-the-wall then to amke a mix like the old days. louder is better, it is more compatable with mroe siuations.
when you're in the care and listening to the radio they have a big multi-band-compressor do that exact thing he's complaing to every song, this si why you don't even care, and why listneing to the radio is so good, becasue it makes even thoes shitty as quit songs from the 70's be loud like nomrla muisc now and days. |
at first i thought you were laughing with yourself pissin people off in general, but seems you actually ARE completely crazy 
hehe
well, although i strongly strongly oppose to the argument of "why do otherwise if that's what today's audience wants"
sadly enough you are very right about so much all the rest, mp3's sound like fucking shit on a stick, everything on the radio's has been compressed as if it was a piece of nepalese hasj, and then hard limited to a straight level, and it sounds like absolute crap
but i don't believe music should be made and then especially not mixed in a certain way because the people want it so ...
the people should always listen to what an artist has to make and do, and i also talk purely about sound and dynamics
loudness is one, but dynamics are another
and idd nowadays there's so much 'overkill' and oversampling going on that nobody notices anymore the difference between a fine very dynamic great sounding track and an overkilled track with all the drums peaking out, which is what they call 'well mixed" or a 'good sound'
fuck that ...
if i go on i start ranting about people and their horrible taste and ears ... so i won't
but yeah ... it's a sad sad planet
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03-12-2007 11:43 |
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Rudeone
love & light
Registration Date: 15-10-2005
Posts: 926
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its a matter of personal taste imo. i dont like overlimited tunes at all
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03-12-2007 12:07 |
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junglist06
Player
Registration Date: 12-09-2006
Posts: 310
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Rudeone
its a matter of personal taste imo. |
i agree
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04-12-2007 09:57 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
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it's not jazz, that needs dynamics,a dn even to this day is probably one fo the few finer music that allow quit ont eh radio. if you're in a rock band, or doing dnb for club music, FUCK dynamics. this is fucking drum and bass, not duke elingtons sextet. you want it to 
. it sounds better loud, and the louder you cna get it the bette it sounds.
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04-12-2007 16:27 |
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Muad'Dib
Andrejnalin
Registration Date: 02-12-2003
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Yeah, but you can always turn the volume knob louder - but there isn't any 'headroom' knob to set your desired dynamics of the tune.
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04-12-2007 19:10 |
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Muad'Dib
Andrejnalin
Registration Date: 02-12-2003
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Dunno, I always thought Fallin by Raiden has good dynamics. Maybe I'm mistaken.
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05-12-2007 00:53 |
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-J-
Big Bad Battyman
Registration Date: 15-11-2002
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Halph-Price
another thing about mp3's is when it gets quiet there is more garbble that comes up unless you use VBR.. CBR rounds it off and gives you some horrible sounding trash, if played loud enough on quality speakers. but by mashing it abaove that the louder you can the less you'll notice this ugliness that happens "in the siiiiiiiiilence".
can anyone show an example of nice dynamics in a dnb tune that is not a jazz/funk/soul tune 
you'd have to look at the track itself to even know if it was going or not.
you don't notice it, unless you have some big cash speakers.
but honestly anyone know of a nice darkstep taht had good dynamics.
the easiest way to get good dynamics is just you a half time part with very minimul, probably not mcuh bass, or just have total silence. get nice dynamics for loudness, but clarity is something i dunno, i always have that issues with getting good clarity in tracks. less is more. |
man you gotta start learning english one of these days
for examples, check the whole Dom & Roland, Break, Breakage, paradox, fanu etc etc cataloque
all very hard, very dark, and VERRRYYY dynamic!
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06-12-2007 13:01 |
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Muad'Dib
Andrejnalin
Registration Date: 02-12-2003
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Dom and Roland - yes.
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06-12-2007 14:30 |
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thechronic
admin
Registration Date: 01-11-2002
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It's the eternal problem. I have done a lot of mastering, but never, ever have I encountered a client (artist or label manager producer type) that wanted to go home with a master that is anything less than max volume throughout.
I have given up on trying to convince them that more dynamics sounds better. The problem is that adding more compression gives an instant 'WHOA' feel, it sounds louder so it sounds better right? But not when you listen to it in isolation, then you notice the peaks are squashed, you lose the brilliance, depth and clarity. But try explaining that to a musician or producer.
Often people come to the studio and they bring along their own crappy master which is heavily limited with some crap ass plugin, and they expect, nay DEMAND, my master to be even more compressed.
Since a long time I have grown the habit of starting to compress massively from the start of the session. It gives the client the impression that we are getting somewhere, and that I will not send them home with some kind of wimpy dynamic master.
Sad but true, people don't want to hear any dynamics anymore.
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06-12-2007 15:54 |
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thechronic
admin
Registration Date: 01-11-2002
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If you want to hear overcompression in recent big selling commercial tracks:
'Chemical Brothers - Galvanize' (sound clip): those percussion and orchestral hits that should stick out lose their impact completely, and the overall sound is horribly squashed
'Gwen Stefani - Rich Girl' (sound clip): a very minimal mix, would lean itself perfectly to a dynamic master, but no, it's so overcompressed that the drums are distorted and you can hear where some of the vocal edits end since their natural tail off is pumped up so much.
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06-12-2007 16:13 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
Posts: 6,160
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some of gwens tracks will actually CLIP on players, that goes against EVERYTHING mastering is suppose to do! all for the sake of loudness!
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06-12-2007 17:12 |
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BattleDrone
2161... the future.
Registration Date: 30-12-2005
Posts: 6,413
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| quote: |
Originally posted by thechronic
If you want to hear overcompression in recent big selling commercial tracks:
'Chemical Brothers - Galvanize' (sound clip): those percussion and orchestral hits that should stick out lose their impact completely, and the overall sound is horribly squashed
'Gwen Stefani - Rich Girl' (sound clip): a very minimal mix, would lean itself perfectly to a dynamic master, but no, it's so overcompressed that the drums are distorted and you can hear where some of the vocal edits end since their natural tail off is pumped up so much. |
ok, the Chemical thing I can hear, the Stefani drums being distorted I can hear too, but it doesn't bother me. But the tail off's of the vocal ???? Did you listen to that clip only or do you have a more full version because I could not hear it.
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06-12-2007 21:17 |
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daze_DND
MYSTIC
Registration Date: 01-11-2004
Posts: 327
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galvanize is bad idd,
agree with the overdone standards of today, everything sounds sounds big but flat.
very interesting topic btw
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06-12-2007 21:30 |
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thechronic
admin
Registration Date: 01-11-2002
Posts: 5,293
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| quote: |
Originally posted by BattleDrone
ok, the Chemical thing I can hear, the Stefani drums being distorted I can hear too, but it doesn't bother me. But the tail off's of the vocal ???? Did you listen to that clip only or do you have a more full version because I could not hear it. |
Yeah I have the full version here, it's probably not in the clip.
The distortion on the drums is really bothersome when you play it loud or on good speakers. I once had to edit this song for a TV show and after half an hour of finding out what was wrong with my setup it dawned on me that it was the CD itself that was causing the distortion 
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06-12-2007 22:34 |
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