 can phantom power kill? |
@1$-)
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lol. i think i already know the answer to this.
but im trying to prove a point to someone i know. you see hes starting up a sound system and claims to have been studying sound/physics yada yada yada for ten years now. but for someone with such alleged knowledge i find it a bit weird that he believes that a 48v signal wont fry you if its set up wrong, he says the voltage is to low. personally i always believed that it was down to the amps more than the voltage
anyway could yall please prove me right and stop my mate from frying some poor guitarist some day (imo you shouldnt be let any where near a rig without a health n safety certificate anyway)
id really appreciate a reply from the chronic on this one if possible. he might pay some attention to someone who actually works in the industry.
peace!
Munk
This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by utter muppet: 07-11-2006 16:07.
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07-11-2006 15:12 |
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cynik 
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no its the voltage
220v is enough to kill you for sure, on the other hand you can barely feel 12v
Im guessing you can fry a mosquito with 48v (if hes plugged in long enough)
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07-11-2006 15:17 |
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TechDiff
Hetty Jakes Pretentious Cheese Wog
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| quote: |
Originally posted by MUNKI C
i always believed that it was down to the amps more than the voltage
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I thought the same, I've never heard of anyone being fried by phantom power.
The only music releated death Ive heard of was a guy I knew when I was at collage. He was a guitar player and he had 2 guitars set up through 2 different amps. Because of an earthing problem, when he picked up both guitars he turned himself into a conductor between the 2 got a massive electric shock and died soon afterwoods. I didnt know him that well but I was good mates with the drummer in his band. Worst part is they'd just signed a large development deal with a record label.
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07-11-2006 15:19 |
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TechDiff
Hetty Jakes Pretentious Cheese Wog
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| quote: |
Originally posted by cynik
no its the voltage
220v is enough to kill you for sure, on the other hand you can barely feel 12v
Im guessing you can fry a mosquito with 48v (if hes plugged in long enough) |
Not completely true, Ive had a massive electric shock, mains electricity in the UK is 240V. I got thrown across the room and cracked my head open, still going strong though. No probelms other than those DAMN VOICES WHO JUST NEVER SHUT UP!!!!!!!!
.....ahem.
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07-11-2006 15:21 |
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@1$-)
unregistered
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07-11-2006 15:26 |
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cynik
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| quote: |
Originally posted by TechDiff
| quote: |
Originally posted by cynik
no its the voltage
220v is enough to kill you for sure, on the other hand you can barely feel 12v
Im guessing you can fry a mosquito with 48v (if hes plugged in long enough) |
Not completely true, Ive had a massive electric shock, mains electricity in the UK is 240V. I got thrown across the room and cracked my head open, still going strong though. No probelms other than those DAMN VOICES WHO JUST NEVER SHUT UP!!!!!!!!
.....ahem. |
lol
well. its not neccecary going to kill you. I had a few 220 hits myself and stayed alive, but people do die at home screwing a lightbulb
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07-11-2006 15:48 |
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@1$-)
unregistered
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so anyone know how many milliamps phantom power uses?
apparently most mics only use 1 to 4 ma. which aint shit and wont do a lot.
but my argument with my mate was that if a guitarist had a jack to xlr connection to a desk and someone turned the phantom power on that channel, the minute he got hold of the guitar he'd b screwed.
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by utter muppet: 07-11-2006 16:55.
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07-11-2006 16:10 |
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TechDiff
Hetty Jakes Pretentious Cheese Wog
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Maybe, more likely the guitar would be screwed. Most of the time the backplate on the guitar (the panel you have to unscrew to get to the insides) is covered on the inside with a foil like material, there is also a small wire that leads out of the pickup circuit and tremolo springs, and makes a contact with the foil. This is so that any current which does get fed into the guitar will go to the foil covering rather than through the strings. The only way you can get an electric shock from a guitar is if the contact between the pickup circuit or tremolo and the backplate is not made. since the conection is not soldered (its just a small piece of wire that touches when the guitar is closed) its possible for the contact to be broken. Thats how you could get an electric shock through an electric guitar. That said, isnt phantom power only 48v? And at 1-4 ma it wouldnt be much of a shock surely, not enough to kill you anyway. Besides which, why would you connect a guitar to a desk with a quater inch to XLR lead?
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07-11-2006 18:07 |
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@1$-)
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well. personally i wouldnt wire a guitar to a desk with a jack to xlr. but ive heard of instances where some spanner who doesnt know what hes doing has tried to DI a guitar like this.
anyway. its the mics that require 1 to 4ma. and phantom power im told is supposed to have a limit of 10ma anyway. and yes u r right you wouldnt get much of a shock like that.
as for the guitars. ive owned a few having played for about fifteen years now. not one of them has had silver foil on the backplate.
i just opened up my telecaster. nothin there. maybe their set up differently. but there wasnt any on my strat either
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07-11-2006 18:21 |
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Muad'Dib
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| quote: |
Originally posted by cynik
no its the voltage
220v is enough to kill you for sure, on the other hand you can barely feel 12v
Im guessing you can fry a mosquito with 48v (if hes plugged in long enough) |
Yeah right. How do you explain then the fact that I'm alive, when I have touched the powerlines several times in my life (even when I was 6 year-old kid) ? 
The basic equation is:
E = I x R, where
P - Power, measured in Watts
E - Electromotive Force, measured in Volts
I - Current (Ioda), measured in Amperes.
The volts determine how far would the electricity pass through the body, the amperes at what speed, and the watts - what damage will it make.
So, for example, electricity of 1 watt and 1 amper, but of 10,000 volts shall not make any significant damage to you but will pass over your whole body. 10 kW with 20 amperes, but 1 volts can make a big damage, but if you touch it with your finger, for example, it will pass your nail only. 
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07-11-2006 18:52 |
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@1$-)
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" How do you explain then the fact that I'm alive, when I have touched the powerlines several times in my life "
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07-11-2006 18:54 |
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djfreemc
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It's indeed the current that is dangerous, not the voltage. You can touch several 10thousands of volts with feeling only some tickling, when the current is low enough. But a current of less than an ampere can allready cause serious burning wounds and uncontrolled muscle contraction.
The connections of all electrical devices (including electrical guitars) are allways isolated from the body. The only thing receiving the phantom power should be the pickups and/or other internal circuitry. I don't know enough about guitar circuitry to tell if it would blow or not from receiving phantom power. Also I thought the most common way to record from an electric guitar was to connect it to an amp, and then put a mic in front of the speaker(s)...
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07-11-2006 19:21 |
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@1$-)
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| quote: |
Originally posted by djfreemc
Also I thought the most common way to record from an electric guitar was to connect it to an amp, and then put a mic in front of the speaker(s)... |
yep tru.
im not sayiing im gonna be wiring up a guitar direct like i said. its just something ive had a couple of people tell tell me. and i think they may have meant someone who wasnt sure what they were doing might accidently do it
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07-11-2006 19:28 |
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cynik
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07-11-2006 21:56 |
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Muad'Dib
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| quote: |
Originally posted by MUNKI C
" How do you explain then the fact that I'm alive, when I have touched the powerlines several times in my life "
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07-11-2006 23:46 |
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djfreemc
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| quote: |
Originally posted by cynik
duh, ofcoruse any voltage is harmless if theres not enough wattage behind it |
It's not the wattage, but the amperage that causes strange cardiac behaviour...
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08-11-2006 18:27 |
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thechronic
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| quote: |
Originally posted by cynik
no its the voltage
220v is enough to kill you for sure, on the other hand you can barely feel 12v
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Lol ok then I have two little challenges for you:
Challenge 1: The 12V Electric Shock!
- wire up 10 car batteries in parallel (will be 12V)
- spit on your hands and touch the poles
Challenge 2: The 3000V Electric Shock!
- wire up a large capacitor (around 1 farad) to a 9V battery and let it charge up for an hour
- remove the battery and touch the poles of the capacitor.
Now tell me which kind of shock you enjoyed the most
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08-11-2006 20:44 |
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thechronic
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| quote: |
Originally posted by MUNKI C
lol. i think i already know the answer to this.
but im trying to prove a point to someone i know. you see hes starting up a sound system and claims to have been studying sound/physics yada yada yada for ten years now. but for someone with such alleged knowledge i find it a bit weird that he believes that a 48v signal wont fry you if its set up wrong, he says the voltage is to low. personally i always believed that it was down to the amps more than the voltage
anyway could yall please prove me right and stop my mate from frying some poor guitarist some day (imo you shouldnt be let any where near a rig without a health n safety certificate anyway)
id really appreciate a reply from the chronic on this one if possible. he might pay some attention to someone who actually works in the industry.
peace!
Munk |
OK If you really want to hear me say it: Phantom power is not harmful.
Neither is 240V 16A current, if you're not exposed for more than a few seconds and have no heart condition. I have had 240V 16A electric shocks so often that I'm not scared of it at all anymore.
If you need to know if there is current on a bare wire, just touch it with the back of your hand and you know immediately
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If you find spam on the site, please hit the button and select my name. I'll personally kick it to the murky depths of hell where it belongs!
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08-11-2006 20:55 |
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Muad'Dib
Andrejnalin
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| quote: |
Originally posted by thechronic
Challenge 1: The 12V Electric Shock!
- wire up 10 car batteries in parallel (will be 12V)
- spit on your hands and touch the poles
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That will be nasty
__
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-Bene Gesserit
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09-11-2006 02:37 |
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equipped
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Muad'Dib
| quote: |
Originally posted by thechronic
Challenge 1: The 12V Electric Shock!
- wire up 10 car batteries in parallel (will be 12V)
- spit on your hands and touch the poles
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That will be nasty
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my filthy sick fucking drummer was fixin his truck and got a nasty shock off the Battery,.. i think,..anyway his finger was blown apart,... had a little bit of black smoke n everything,..like a little bomb went off in his finger tip,...serious,...anyway deserv'sthe ol-> lol in full,....no joke though,...serious pain. 
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Space
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09-11-2006 03:11 |
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