I can't switch from Techno to DnB

drumnbass.be forum » Production » Software » Fruity Loops - FL Studio » I can't switch from Techno to DnB

I can't switch from Techno to DnB

Author

Post

BattleDrone BattleDrone is a male

2161... the future.

Registration Date: 30-12-2005
Posts: 6,413

Helpfulness rating:

I used to make Techno and even hardcore for quite a while first working with trackers on Amiga and PC, the last few years I used FL (even v1.0). But I got fed up with these music styles and wanted to make DnB. But this is extremly hard compared to techno etc Doped

My approach which used to be succesful does not work well for Dnb though.
I used to make a pattern that sounded like the "climax" of a tune and then cut every channel to a different pattern and combine them into a build-up, a break, ... into a song and then add some variations to it.

Techno usually has little variation to it (compared to DnB), so the number of patterns was still within range of the understandable, but with DnB I tend to make an awfull ot of patterns, not being able to keep the overview. Can I re-use my patterns somehow with a different score?

I could use some help on how to basically build a DnB tune. What pattern size to use...

__

Check my soundcloud (exclusive tracks on there)

13-01-2006 14:29

Surya

The Robot

Registration Date: 04-11-2002
Posts: 11,238

Helpfulness rating:

Yeah, DnB is ininitly more complex, I had problems in the beginning too (switching from trance)...

As for pattern size: depends on your melody. If you have a 1 bar melody, use a pattern of 16 ticks, 32 for 2 bars...

Do you make patterns pers instrument or one pattern with all the instruments in? It's more flexible if you have seperate patterns...

__
"In dnb you should make people jump not swim"
- Pieter Frenssen 2004

13-01-2006 14:34

BattleDrone BattleDrone is a male

2161... the future.

Registration Date: 30-12-2005
Posts: 6,413

Helpfulness rating:

When I'm composing I'm always playing just 1 pattern so all stuff is inside it, when I'm satisfied with the result I split the whole thing into seperate patterns (Which should be automated as it's a monkey-job).

__

Check my soundcloud (exclusive tracks on there)

13-01-2006 15:02

Hypoxic Hypoxic is a male

Sponsor

Registration Date: 10-01-2006
Posts: 65

Helpfulness rating:

quote:

Originally posted by BattleDrone
(Which should be automated as it's a monkey-job).

That would be awesome if it did that hey! the amout of time i;ve wasted
spliting em. and drop down menus for the playlist names too.

I'm having similar probs switching from trance, I think the best thing
to do is listen to shitloads of dnb and just keep on trying to make it.

Just keep at it, it will come young padawan

__
There is no now like now!

www.myspace.com/hypoxicmusic

19-01-2006 13:40

TechDiff
Hetty Jakes Pretentious Cheese Wog

Registration Date: 14-06-2005
Posts: 1,028

Helpfulness rating:

I guess the easiest thing to do would be to try and break the genre down to its basic elements, The drums and the bass.

The drums need to have a lot of energy and power, and always need to sound fluid. The best way to acheive this is by first getting a (the) basic kick snare pattern, and then building up the other rythmical elements around that such as hi-hats and ghost snares etc. One youve got a nice 1 bar beat going, extend it to four bars and change the last on slightly to give some variation. et voila, a basic DnB beat.

As fro the bass line, a good way to start is to have something that follows the kick part. you shouldnt have too much trouble getting a good tone seeing as your coming from a techno background. The most important thing to remember is to try and compliment the drums with the bass line, if they dont work together then your missing the most vital elements of DnB.

I think its best to keep one pattern per part as this is always clearer when arranging.

After the drums and bass, all you really need is some ambiance and some variations. Stuff like the structuring will come, concentrate on being able to lay down some good ideas first.

19-01-2006 14:03

djfreemc djfreemc is a male

Sponsor

Registration Date: 25-07-2003
Posts: 1,117

Helpfulness rating:

quote:

Originally posted by BattleDrone
When I'm composing I'm always playing just 1 pattern so all stuff is inside it, when I'm satisfied with the result I split the whole thing into seperate patterns (Which should be automated as it's a monkey-job).

In FL6 it is now automated. Just right-click the pattern you want to split in the playlist, and then select split by channel.

__
The mysteries of the distorted snare...
Can't win if u don't play

19-01-2006 17:32

BattleDrone BattleDrone is a male

2161... the future.

Registration Date: 30-12-2005
Posts: 6,413

Helpfulness rating:

Hey! Thanks for the nice advice dudes...

I immediately tried that splitting stuff and it works great, thanks
I've been working on some stuff wich is just the basics, but it doesn't sound like classic DnB, it's a little bit rough, kinda industrial.

I would like to post it to some people to get an opinion on what I'm doing wrong, but I feel a bit shy to throw it onto the tunes forum.

Except for above mentioned problems I also encounter a weak snaredrum, even if I layer it I hear no difference, still the same weakness, 3 copies of the same drum or 3 different drumsounds, still nothing happens. Noo

I'm on FL6.

__

Check my soundcloud (exclusive tracks on there)

19-01-2006 20:13

Greyone Greyone is a male

Master Producer

Registration Date: 01-04-2005
Posts: 6,285

Helpfulness rating:

quote:

Originally posted by BattleDrone
I used to make Techno and even hardcore for quite a while first working with trackers on Amiga and PC, the last few years I used FL (even v1.0). But I got fed up with these music styles and wanted to make DnB. But this is extremly hard compared to techno etc Doped

i did it just like you do at first (i made hardcore & techno too)
making a climax and split everthing into channels

now i focus myself on three things:
-drums (make one , save em , reuse em as sample and make loads of variations etc...)
-body (getting the right samples , n experiment till you find the right thing)
-EQing (pff no commentà

19-01-2006 21:13

BattleDrone BattleDrone is a male

2161... the future.

Registration Date: 30-12-2005
Posts: 6,413

Helpfulness rating:

quote:

Originally posted by greyone

i did it just like you do at first (i made hardcore & techno too)
making a climax and split everthing into channels

now i focus myself on three things:
-drums (make one , save em , reuse em as sample and make loads of variations etc...)
-body (getting the right samples , n experiment till you find the right thing)
-EQing (pff no commentà

Greyone, can you explain a bit about the drums? I am not familiar with the technique you mention here. Do you save a self-made drumloop as a sample and then load it into a slicer to make the variations?

__

Check my soundcloud (exclusive tracks on there)

19-01-2006 22:19

Friscko Friscko is a male

Aron Tinnitus

Registration Date: 12-03-2005
Posts: 4,467

Helpfulness rating:

quote:

Originally posted by BattleDrone

quote:

No, it's easier to make the variations when making the beat and then save all the drumloops as wav's so u can use em as a sample

__

www.myspace.com/arontinnitus
www.myspace.com/djfriscko

19-01-2006 22:33

BattleDrone BattleDrone is a male

2161... the future.

Registration Date: 30-12-2005
Posts: 6,413

Helpfulness rating:

I guess that's a way to keep the oveview on your song as the drums don't take up so much space visually?

__

Check my soundcloud (exclusive tracks on there)

24-01-2006 12:30

baz

Registration Date: 19-02-2005
Posts: 1,531

Helpfulness rating:

quote:

Originally posted by djfreemc

quote:

In FL6 it is now automated. Just right-click the pattern you want to split in the playlist, and then select split by channel.

shit man it actually works thx a lot m8 this will help me reworking some of my older shit

an as for battledrone :----> just do something original with ur style tryin' to make mainstream shit only get's the music killed (in other words you could build up a industrial techno track an then just make it go into HARD electro or somethin' like that) whatever u do make sure u like it Wink

__
"shotgun ; slammin in yo chestpiece ; blaw"

24-01-2006 16:50

Greyone Greyone is a male

Master Producer

Registration Date: 01-04-2005
Posts: 6,285

Helpfulness rating:

quote:

Originally posted by BattleDrone

quote:

drums ok

firt get loads of one shot samples and some drumsamples.

1. i get my fruity slicer n drop a drumsample in and make a new more varating one.
2. then i go to my one-shots , n put a kick on a kick , a snare on a snare , etc ... layering as we call it.
3. eq the new loop carefully , cause this will be the drum for your drop (or for intro , mixdown , etc)

save the loop as wav and now you can reuse it in a new flp.

re-using :

load it in a sample - channel , or a Slicer - channel , and make copies of the loop.

with these copies u can now make loads of variation , to keep the track interesting ,
for ex : another placement of kicks or snare at the end of a bar ...

but you can do it your own way too Wink

24-01-2006 18:23

BattleDrone BattleDrone is a male

2161... the future.

Registration Date: 30-12-2005
Posts: 6,413

Helpfulness rating:

quote:

Originally posted by greyone
drums ok

firt get loads of one shot samples and some drumsamples.

1. i get my fruity slicer n drop a drumsample in and make a new more varating one.
2. then i go to my one-shots , n put a kick on a kick , a snare on a snare , etc ... layering as we call it.
3. eq the new loop carefully , cause this will be the drum for your drop (or for intro , mixdown , etc)

save the loop as wav and now you can reuse it in a new flp.

re-using :

load it in a sample - channel , or a Slicer - channel , and make copies of the loop.

with these copies u can now make loads of variation , to keep the track interesting ,
for ex : another placement of kicks or snare at the end of a bar ...

but you can do it your own way too Wink

OK, I think understand what you 're saying, but just to make sure that i'm getting things right here:
- with "drumsample" you mean a complete break?

- How does that layering work exactly? Do you add extra oneshot samples in your slicer and give them the same positions as the sound-alikes?

- If you use your reworked drums in a track and you put them in a sample channel, how can you make variations of it? I would think you'll always need a slicer for that?

__

Check my soundcloud (exclusive tracks on there)

25-01-2006 13:42

Surora23 Surora23 is a male

Agressive Melodic Disorder

Registration Date: 05-07-2004
Posts: 2,127

Helpfulness rating:

quote:

#1 you gotta know the basic drumnbass structure... all those lovely lil patterns and samples you got goin are gonna be completely useless if you dont sequencte them right, and in the right places...

take a week or 2 and listen to as much dnb as you can...no matter waht it is...tech step, jump up, liquid...whatever... browse some record shop sites and listne to the reord samples...OVER AND OVER AND OVER... learn the music before you make it...(cause then youll try to do the same iwth the old techno structure and that aint gonna fly)

#2 with buildups, things have to be noticable but subtle...like if you have a basic break down you dont all of a sudden want to drop a reece right in the middle of an into... a lot of people tell me, its the little things that make dnb good (which i find true and tons of cases) its never really about waht you hear up front, its all teh details in teh back that fit perfectly with everything else...

so when you do your buildups and lets say you dorp a new percussion line, or perhaps a break, make a small 4-8 count transition before the new measure... that way it doesnt all of a suddent jump in ya know..

ALSO DO NOT USE THE FRUIT SLICER!!!!!!

everyone that is using fl has the chance to REALY sequence breaks from scratch because of you being able to sequence everything in a seperate channel....

program all you sound in one pattern but diff channels... so you kick, your snares and your hats will all be in sep channels but in the same pattern...

ALSO******** that way you can send each sample to its own mastering channel in FL... this way you cna eq everything seperately and properly. (YOU CANNOT DO THIS IF YOU USE THE SLICER!!!!!!!!!)

so i dont care what anyone tells you, DO NOT USE THE SLICER FOR DRUMS... percussion, and vocals and shit.. thats cool... but drums are important in dnb so its vital that you have full controll over them...

that should hold you over for the moment..

__
Rinse it OUT!!!! Rinse

This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Surora23: 25-01-2006 19:48.

25-01-2006 19:47

BattleDrone BattleDrone is a male

2161... the future.

Registration Date: 30-12-2005
Posts: 6,413

Helpfulness rating:

quote:

Originally posted by Surora23

#1 you gotta know the basic drumnbass structure... all those lovely lil patterns and samples you got goin are gonna be completely useless if you dont sequencte them right, and in the right places...

take a week or 2 and listen to as much dnb as you can...no matter waht it is...tech step, jump up, liquid...whatever... browse some record shop sites and listne to the reord samples...OVER AND OVER AND OVER... learn the music before you make it...(cause then youll try to do the same iwth the old techno structure and that aint gonna fly)

#2 with buildups, things have to be noticable but subtle...like if you have a basic break down you dont all of a sudden want to drop a reece right in the middle of an into... a lot of people tell me, its the little things that make dnb good (which i find true and tons of cases) its never really about waht you hear up front, its all teh details in teh back that fit perfectly with everything else...

so when you do your buildups and lets say you dorp a new percussion line, or perhaps a break, make a small 4-8 count transition before the new measure... that way it doesnt all of a suddent jump in ya know..

ALSO DO NOT USE THE FRUIT SLICER!!!!!!

everyone that is using fl has the chance to REALY sequence breaks from scratch because of you being able to sequence everything in a seperate channel....

program all you sound in one pattern but diff channels... so you kick, your snares and your hats will all be in sep channels but in the same pattern...

ALSO******** that way you can send each sample to its own mastering channel in FL... this way you cna eq everything seperately and properly. (YOU CANNOT DO THIS IF YOU USE THE SLICER!!!!!!!!!)

so i dont care what anyone tells you, DO NOT USE THE SLICER FOR DRUMS... percussion, and vocals and shit.. thats cool... but drums are important in dnb so its vital that you have full controll over them...

that should hold you over for the moment..

Thanks for taking your time and writing so much. It's all very helpfull, but there's one thing that bothers me a bit:
I create my breaks in an FL pattern, no slicer used upto now. But they don't sound good. Especially a roll (let it be a hihat a bassdrum or snare roll) it still sounds like you are replaying the same sample several times (which is the case) instead of the effect you would get when you slice a real-life drumlline. I tried f°ckin' everything to make it sound right (my first try to make DnB was 2years ago). I'm quite obsessed by the amen structure. I'd love to re-create it myself.

Another problem I constantly notice: where does one find good bassdrum/hihat/snare samples for DnB? OK, you'll say: use google and download. But the problem is that I can't tell from the percussion instruments if they are suitable for DnB. With Techno this was easy (everything was easier). Now I use samples from my (Techno oriented) collection which makes it sound like a Techno tune on a bad day Mad

Check my soundcloud (exclusive tracks on there)

26-01-2006 19:18

Surora23 Surora23 is a male

Agressive Melodic Disorder

Registration Date: 05-07-2004
Posts: 2,127

Helpfulness rating:

quote:

Originally posted by BattleDrone

quote:

for your drum roll issue... its all a mater of the notes you play wtih yoru samples and the velocity you play them at... a natural drummer, when he does drum rolls (lets say just a snare) may hit a snare drum in different places, each part of a snare drum will have a different tone de[ending on where you hit it and how hard you hit it... so you have to visualise in your head HOW you would be playing that drum roll if you were a real drummer...

also for good sounds for dnb there are TONS of samples packs all over the net.. the best thing to do is find a bunch on here (there some good break packs here...i suggest dave akumas and mine) also there are a bunch of good one shots on the packs too... so check those.. theyre not GREAT quality...but you can mask that with better samples over top.. you jsut gotta dig.. its hard... i have toruibles myself and sometimes im compeletly baffled how some people find stuff... but also DnB was original all based on REAL BREAK sounds... from REAL drummers.. so the most flavorful and best sounding breaks in dnb usually are natural drum sounds... so go diggin, find some sick breaks, chop em up in wav lab or soundforge, and start from there...

__
Rinse it OUT!!!! Rinse

27-01-2006 00:27

Greyone Greyone is a male

Master Producer

Registration Date: 01-04-2005
Posts: 6,285

Helpfulness rating:

quote:

Originally posted by BattleDrone

quote:

drumsample is a drumbreak yeah
like an amen , firefight , james brown things , doesnt matter

layering , while you made a composition in the slicer and you want to add kicks , dont do it in the slicer
do it in a separate channel , but maintain the same kick position
same for extra snares etc...

reusing drums for variation is in the slicer , cut n replace the whole again for variation . you can copy it in a new pattern n change some more ...

USE THE SLICER if you like the easy way
dont use it if you want the hard way Wink

27-01-2006 02:13

BattleDrone BattleDrone is a male

2161... the future.

Registration Date: 30-12-2005
Posts: 6,413

Helpfulness rating:

quote:

Originally posted by greyone
USE THE SLICER if you like the easy way
dont use it if you want the hard way Wink

It all depends on what you're used too... my previous FL version was 3 (now using 6) and I didn't have a slicer yet. I find it really hard to manipulate a sliced drum break, it lacks overview which i do have in a normal pattern.

So I think I'll stick to drum patterns Pleased

Check my soundcloud (exclusive tracks on there)

27-01-2006 14:10

TechDiff
Hetty Jakes Pretentious Cheese Wog

Registration Date: 14-06-2005
Posts: 1,028

Helpfulness rating:

quote:

Originally posted by Surora23
ALSO DO NOT USE THE FRUIT SLICER!!!!!!

everyone that is using fl has the chance to REALY sequence breaks from scratch because of you being able to sequence everything in a seperate channel....

program all you sound in one pattern but diff channels... so you kick, your snares and your hats will all be in sep channels but in the same pattern...

ALSO******** that way you can send each sample to its own mastering channel in FL... this way you cna eq everything seperately and properly. (YOU CANNOT DO THIS IF YOU USE THE SLICER!!!!!!!!!)

..

I agree and disagree. Your right in saying that its better to use individual channels to create beats, especialy because it alows you to send them to different fx channels etc. But I think if your going to make loads of different variations on your drums the slicer makes things a hell of a lot easier. I find that the mid point is best. I'll create a drum loop, start with a break I sliced up in soundforge, load a different slice into its own channel, then layer other kicks, snares, etc. Fiddle with the eq's till Ive got a drumloop. Then export the whole thing as a wav and slice this up for the drums. This way you still have a good sounding beat but its easier to change and add variations to it

27-01-2006 15:57

Pages (3): [1] 2 3 next »

drumnbass.be forum » Production » Software » Fruity Loops - FL Studio » I can't switch from Techno to DnB