 ageing and evolution [sceintific] |
Hidden identity 
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if billions of estimated years can turn a low life span microbe into a man,
then also the aging process can change and become larger.
wouldnt natural selection pick out the ones who lived longest,
they would reproduce, then life spans would keep on getting longer and longer.
why would life span vary from one suposedly evolved animal to the other in both a posative or negative way?
any one else ever read about the aging process?
any reason why natural selection would ever shorten or stop elongating life spans?
thanks in advance for feeback.
------
and on a religious note...
if God created everything this way...
he must not realy value the individual, only the collective species,
because ageing dooms the individual, yet does not destroy the colective species.
but that whole looking-for-logic-in-the-amalgum-of-modern-reality / wanting to know what "god" "thinks" has not yet truely worked for me...
so im gunu not even start to wonder about god this and god that cause that is F@#$#@%. (cencored by self on perpose)
(edit:added)
u know i love organic life forms (especialy fellow humans)
and my... our ultimet enemy as individuals is death,
so this topic^ is one of my greatest paradox's and agrivations.
its the single most desturbing thing to me,
because i dont realy care much about vain exitements,
what i want is to exist and not stop existing...
if you thought about it for a while,
youd either feal bad or....
feal ok and think that there was life after death or somthing i bet.
realy lame shit^
dont loose sleep over it. (easier siad then done)
[november 5th, public aploagy edit
i re-worded the first half of this post.
im personaly sorry for claiming evolution was flat out false without
giving a full explanation. after doing alot of reading about it
id realized my error, i spoke too much too soon.
sorry about that and i dont wanna do the wrong thing.
__
I'm trying to unfuck my sig.
This post has been edited 3 time(s), it was last edited by Hidden identity: 05-11-2005 20:23.
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04-11-2005 05:52 |
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Hidden identity
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http://www.creationdesign.org/
holycrap google linked to a site that is not about sales.
yah i read it, and yah evolution doesnt have alot proof and is an old theory.
but this whole god thing makes me feal sick.
ive memorized so many bible topics and concepts,
so many years of my life ive heard this and that...
if i were god things would be VERY difforent.
oh man, i have to make a new thread.
forum version of my "the white book" writings maybe.
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I'm trying to unfuck my sig.
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04-11-2005 06:09 |
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dYzeaZe
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Dude, I appreciate that you're starting an interesting discussion here, but I personally think that it
will be utter bullshit, since you want to argue about things no one here (and you too, of course)
know anything about. Yeah we know some shit from school and college about microbes, apes,
human history, but to talk things TRULY related to this topic you must know very much of it. Saying
that "people are aging so evolution is bullshit" doesn't really sound scientific to me. And who's to
decide whether evolution is false or not? You, me, Nobel Prize winners? I think not. That's a bit beyond
peoples understanding now. We don't even have enough facts.
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Right now I'm in the process of making up a good sig.
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04-11-2005 10:46 |
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Greyone
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I think people think too much & too far (as im writing now too 
).
ok agree you can think and talk about it , but don't let it take over your head.
evolution , so what.
wars , so what.
world ending , so what.
Just do your thing , live , go out , smoke J's , have a nice time...
We're only human beings living for like 80 years , you dont have to spend 10 years of it thinking like ... "Oh no , i get old"
Do you understand what i mean, cause i dont want to come over offensive.
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04-11-2005 10:57 |
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djfreemc
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Live span does get longer you know. In the times of romans, someone 28 had a very respectable age, nowadays someone who is 28 is still a youngster. This is for a big part the accomplishment of growing hygiene and medical science, but maybe also a part of evolution. Another thing is, if life spans would get longer and longer, evolution would start to go slower and slower. Evolution comes from new combinations of genes made by reproduction, if life span would rise drastically, reproduction would decrease, and evolution would significantly slow down.
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Can't win if u don't play
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04-11-2005 11:14 |
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Hidden identity
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| quote: |
| "if life span would rise drastically, reproduction would decrease, and evolution would significantly slow down." |
what would make reproduction slow down?...
what is the connection between life span and reproduction rate?
i see a connection existant, but i realy dont understand why it would just be there on its own... wouldnt natural selection pick out the most sexerific and strongest most long-living animal genes?
(lol at sexerific, mind if i joke?)
i art hornier then thow, the future is mine! muhauahahah.
(just kidding)
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| quote: |
| "ok agree you can think and talk about it , but don't let it take over your head." |
yup. we can waste time wondering were we came from,
or we could focus on our own future and try to make things
better for ourselves or others.
also it is my theory that if you cannot let go of or accept
an impossability, madness is your only reward...
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| quote: |
"but I personally think that it
will be utter bullshit, since you want to argue about things no one here (and you too, of course)
know anything about" |
well i know a bit, and i wanna know more. so i ask and want to talk about it.
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I'm trying to unfuck my sig.
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04-11-2005 18:30 |
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dYzeaZe
Blighted Mind
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Hidden identity
well i know a bit, and i wanna know more. so i ask and want to talk about it. |
Dude what I mean is that you have to spend all your lifetime studying and researching and discovering to actually TALK REAL DEAL about the topic.
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04-11-2005 20:02 |
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Hidden identity
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http://www.senescence.info/
this article realy helped me feal better.
just read the first part and youll see why.
there are groups of people putting alot of time and effort into trying to cure aging or atleast slow it down and it helped me feal better to be reminded of that.
im doing research about this whole thing and will keep reading what i can.
im searching to see if age limit (not life expectancy) has changed throughout time or not because of what djfreemc got me wondering about.
if there has been know change in ageing throught time...
then it sort of chocks one up for the religious things ive been told about how only God can fix ageing.
he didnt "fix" what he eledgedly programmed into organic life yet,
and if he is going to then i literaly cant wait,
so i sure hope that scientists have made even a bit of progress...
but ill just go read now, cya.
(not gunu spend a life time at studieing evolution though,
just gunnu read the research results alright?)
__
I'm trying to unfuck my sig.
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05-11-2005 01:12 |
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Hidden identity
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i wrote an e-mail to the guy who made that website.
from what i can tell hes a dude from harvard university or somthin?
i sure hope that he replies...
this is my e-mail to him:
| quote: |
questions, ideas and a bit of off-topic garble:
did they ever find out what in cancer cells makes them never stop multiplying?
cancer cells dont realy age do they?
ok, if what made them not age was isolated,
then somehow this one element selectively mutated into human cells,
then the imune system didnt destroy it, then what?
and how possable is my silly idea?
i hate ageing. i think that trying to stop ageing is one of the most nobel and virtuious goals in existance. i admire that and i feal for it.
-
i saw your pictures on that page (http://www.senescence.info/antiaging.html)
i laughed, it was a bit of much needed comic releaf, because ageing is very saddening to me.
(im 21 years old but already concerned)
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do you believe in evolution? a god? or perhaps neither?
wouldnt natural selection remove ageing?
if you think about it, the life forms that lived longer or who didnt age at all would be superior and then become the majority.
has human life span and age limit changed through the thousands of years?
(im talking about life span limit, not life expectancy)
if you believe in God and its biblical then i know were your comin from man.
but why the hell should we pay for someone elses mastake and inherit ageing?
biblicaly it did say about a new system and god removing the ageing process from humans...
itd be great if it happened but it hasnt yet has it?
and leme guess, creating dna is impossable now?
will it ever be possable to reporgram dna even in part.
could selective breeding extend life span?
-
ive had lots of questions; i hope that you will have the time and energy to reply.
i realy apreshiated your website because education is realy an important thing in a person's life.
thanks for reading, have a nice day. |
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05-11-2005 02:16 |
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Hidden identity
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quotes from http://www.sigmaxi.org/about/news/archive.jan98.shtml
i thought it was real fun to read, a cool site if your interested.
| quote: |
| In "Computing Science," Brian Hayes looks at the various coding schemes that were advanced to describe the double helix of DNA, before the right answer was found. "Some of the proposed codes were truly ingenious," he writes. "Indeed, it was hard not to feel a twinge of regret on coming to the end of the story and learning the right answer. Compared with the elegant inventions of the theorists, nature's code seemed a bit of a kludge." Hayes is a former editor of American Scientist. |
(kludge: a system and especially a computer system made up of poorly matched components (merriam webster))
this reminds me of the difforences i feal exist between logical and natural design. if cycborgs existed, you better believe they would have better ability and quality of life! its just that what we currenlty build to help compinsate for a weakness, or to make work easier for us,
is not an integral part of our physical bodies.
| quote: |
| In the January-February issue of American Scientist magazine, three researchers contend in an article called "Confronting the Boundaries of Human Longevity" that human beings, like race cars, are not intentionally engineered to fall apart. They simply are not designed to run indefinitely after the checkered flag has fallen. In this analogy, the finish line for human beings is the successful reproduction and raising of offspring. |
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| quote: |
| If the wear and tear of aging is the product of evolutionary neglect rather than evolutionary intent, the authors say, then there is every reason to be optimistic that the process is inherently modifiable, which has extremely important implications for our aging population. |
@djfreemc,
thanks for your efforts and support! those links helped me to learn more and more about this topic. (he sent pms)
what i was imagining is if evolution was true,
and didnt need reproduction to cause it,
then in theory a species could life forever and slowly personaly evolve,
without having to just be changed a bit per generation.
is evolution generation based or time based?
(ill try to find that out on the net if i can)
if generation based, then the life forms that reproduced and died at the most rapid rate would also evolve more, which would do what to organic life as we know it?...
human technological evolution picked up momentum with time,
so wouldnt generation based evolution also pick up momentum with time? this would mean that the most advanced and evolved life forms would also have the most rapid reproduction and death rates wouldnt it?
life spans and reproduction rates dont realy show a true relativety to how evolved they suposedly are do they?
(all questions, not realy claims)
you know how ageing and frailties look to me?
they look retarded and useless and against what evolution stands for.
any time id ever written any sci-fi books, the eco-system was always realy spectacular and animals keeped on getting stronger and smarted,
all life did this, and i dont see that happening in real life...
which is why i wonder if nature contradicts itself,
or maybe nature is the symbolic amalgum of how everything on earth effects everything else, but is besides the point of the meaning of life or the ultimet goal of it...?
__
I'm trying to unfuck my sig.
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Hidden identity: 05-11-2005 20:52.
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05-11-2005 20:49 |
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djfreemc
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If you want an alternative (rather dark) look on evolution theories, try to find some more about Professor Stephen W. Hawking his theories. His point of view is that evolution will go on, even without us (if humanity would destroy itsself).
__
The mysteries of the distorted snare...
Can't win if u don't play
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05-11-2005 21:45 |
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Hidden identity
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he replied to my mail, im honored!
| quote: |
Hi,
My responses are bellow marked with ###.
At 08:07 PM 4/11/2005, you wrote:
questions, ideas and a bit of off-topic garble:
did they ever find out what in cancer cells makes them never stop multiplying?
### In human cells, telomerase. See:
http://www.senescence.info/telomeres.html
cancer cells dont realy age do they?
### They never stop multiplying in culture, but there could be changes in the cell population. It depends on how you define "aging."
ok, if what made them not age was isolated,
then somehow this one element selectively mutated into human cells,
then the imune system didnt destroy it, then what?
and how possable is my silly idea?
### I don't understand what you're trying to say. Why do you mention the immune system?
i hate ageing. i think that trying to stop ageing is one of the most nobel and virtuious goals in existance. i admire that and i feal for it.
-
i saw your pictures on that page (http://www.senescence.info/antiaging.html)
i laughed, it was a bit of much needed comic releaf, because ageing is very saddening to me.
(im 21 years old but already concerned)
-
do you believe in evolution? a god? or perhaps neither?
### I'm atheist. Evolution is not belief, it is a scientific theory which explains certain observations. Like many other theories, I use the theory of evolution in my own work.
wouldnt natural selection remove ageing?
if you think about it, the life forms that lived longer or who didnt age at all would be superior and then become the majority.
### I mention this debate here:
http://www.senescence.info/evolution.html
has human life span and age limit changed through the thousands of years?
(im talking about life span limit, not life expectancy)
### No.
if you believe in God and its biblical then i know were your comin from man.
but why the hell should we pay for someone elses mastake and inherit ageing?
biblicaly it did say about a new system and god removing the ageing process from humans...
itd be great if it happened but it hasnt yet has it?
### I don't believe in God.
and leme guess, creating dna is impossable now?
will it ever be possable to reporgram dna even in part.
### It is already possible up to a certain extent. It's still not safe enough, though.
could selective breeding extend life span?
### Yes, it has been done in animals.
Cheers,
Joao |
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I'm trying to unfuck my sig.
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10-11-2005 03:35 |
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