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 usa, freedom's cost & religious deviation |
Surya 
The Robot
Registration Date: 04-11-2002
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It should be outlawed!
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"In dnb you should make people jump not swim"
- Pieter Frenssen 2004
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03-11-2005 08:19 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
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free market and the privacy protection are two different things.
well there's the constitution that is to protect everyone from the laws being used against them, the minorites. any governemtn that tries to get around the constitution, or change them, is much like the little pigs in Animal Farm.
everyones equal, except some people are more equal than others.
CEO's that make hundreds of millionst you have a minimum wage that could be jacked up to help the ecnomy. working people have the money, ceo's have balance sheets. this is how you see a company like enron look like it has billions, and than turns out they don't have two pennies to rub. the monies they have are just numbers. it's all a mind fuck thing.
like holding people hostage with an unloaded gun. nobody questions it.
how's that for mindcontrol from corperate america. the governments suppose to advise you what you should and shouldn't do, but allow you the freedom to do it. there suppose to regulate bigger powers from descriminating minorites. instead they make everything that is semi-harmful outlawed, and let corperations, like wal-mart, and mcdonalds, and every other fucing big one you think of, use, abuse, rape, pilalge, exploit, and drain everything they can. all for the sake of money. that they corperations SAY they have.
to ban human nature is a entirly christian ideal. GOD BLESS AMERICA. it's there way of thinking that everything is immoral and should be not done. church and state should be cept seperate, but yet, there's the biggest mass of manipulation by christian groups in america, that will petition and try to stem off anything they think is slightly immoral, including any research on spread of aids from homosexual. simply because it's wrong, in their opnion, and will influcnes any government establishment they can. because there fucking right cuz the imaginary fucking god, said fucking so.
i got to get back to work, but that's good enough it think.
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This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Halph-Price: 03-11-2005 20:51.
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03-11-2005 20:48 |
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Hidden identity
Wicked Producer
Registration Date: 17-02-2005
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| quote: |
| to ban human nature is a entirly christian ideal. GOD BLESS AMERICA. it's there way of thinking that everything is immoral and should be not done. church and state should be cept seperate, but yet, there's the biggest mass of manipulation by christian groups in america, that will petition and try to stem off anything they think is slightly immoral, including any research on spread of aids from homosexual. simply because it's wrong, in their opnion, and will influcnes any government establishment they can. because there fucking right cuz the imaginary fucking god, said fucking so. |
Good1!
nice to see that ur tierd of false religion and bulshit!
ive seen alot of christian thinking, and i get sick of shit to.
(religious negative shit is also a part of human nature... thank about it)
i hate how they are scared stupid. they get so scared that its immoral that they dont have the guts to un-biastly understand it...
but im not saying christianity is bad... but maybe true christianity died with the christe and now all we have is fake assed humanized religious mind controler bulshits... a scarry thought if true, i dunno.
id like to say God bless america, but in a difforent way.
i want each nation to prosper and be ok.
did anybody ever talley the amount of good and bad that stemmed from those who claim to be christian? mass religious biproduct...
if theres a report id like to read it, i love to learn.
and in the feild of temptation, is not heaven the ultimet temptation?
and hell terrorism? it doesnt say in the bible that people will go to hell and be tortured forever if they dont listen, and it dont say they just go to heaven and have infinint pleasure either.
wut i called "confirmed theology" was when u took a biblical law then looked for scientific support of it and logic, and if it was scientificly healthy for people to apply THEN id personaly apply it.
Now is that the destruction of, or the purification of a religious code of conduct? and why isnt that ever done by the preists?
well i cant stand religion much anymore actualy...
i just like taking in facts now, not opinions and rubbish.
Thanks for ur thoughts halphprice, have a good day.
cyaz.
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I'm trying to unfuck my sig.
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03-11-2005 23:29 |
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djfreemc
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I think all religion's are basicly good. Well that's the idea, It is the interpretation that some people spread that fucks it all up. To use the example mentioned above, the bible doesn't mention a heaven or a hell, those are things that were made up by religious leaders in history to keep the simple people under control, to get more power and money for theirselves. It is too sad to see that today, relegion is still used to scare people and keep people who want to believe under control. Religion should create freedom to do good to other people, it shouldn't make you blind and lock your mind like a lot of people who call themselves religious do.
Another thing that bothers me a lot is the common belief that the koran calls for violence or discrimination. It doesn't. But some people like to make that interpretation because it fits them well, in both islamic and non-islamic cultures. And unfortunately, they seem to have the capacity to convince other people to follow that same misinterpretation.
The point I'm trying to make is that relegions aren't be a bad thing, but people abusing their own religion and the religions of others make this world anything but the perfect society the religions preach.
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The mysteries of the distorted snare...
Can't win if u don't play
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03-11-2005 23:52 |
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Hidden identity
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Registration Date: 17-02-2005
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| quote: |
I think all religion's are basicly good. Well that's the idea, It is the interpretation that some people spread that fucks it all up. To use the example mentioned above, the bible doesn't mention a heaven or a hell, those are things that were made up by religious leaders in history to keep the simple people under control, to get more power and money for theirselves. It is too sad to see that today, relegion is still used to scare people and keep people who want to believe under control. Religion should create freedom to do good to other people, it shouldn't make you blind and lock your mind like a lot of people who call themselves religious do.
Another thing that bothers me a lot is the common belief that the koran calls for violence or discrimination. It doesn't. But some people like to make that interpretation because it fits them well, in both islamic and non-islamic cultures. And unfortunately, they seem to have the capacity to convince other people to follow that same misinterpretation.
The point I'm trying to make is that relegions aren't be a bad thing, but people abusing their own religion and the religions of others make this world anything but the perfect society the religions preach. |
^i agree.
religion has been used to exploit the faith and dreams of people.
remember how the pharasies were so focused on manotonious rules and they hated jesus? but they were the highest up on the religious higharchy back then.
matthew 22:35
the greatest commandments were to love.
what if this also meant that all other laws were supposedto be based on love?
what if all of the "new commandment"
("new commandment" when circumsition and animal sacrafices were abolished and things looked realy logical and humain. jews had a hard time changing to that, to christianity)
was actualy specifications to support love of neighbor and god...?
THEN it changes everything, just like Jesus changed everything.
the pharasies complained that he healed on the sabath,
but jesus put a human being's needs above a law.
now bang, you apply that to a religion and what do you have?
in one of my books i was writing,
Demipreditheos personaly and absolutely believed that moral codes and edicut and all of that petty stuff were besides the point. he believed that they were evil and a waste of time, a destraction from the true importance of action after loving and valuing your own existance and the existance of the life forms around you.
....ive had a hard time changing my religious beliefes...
putting what is most healthy above what is tought,
i thought it would destroy my faith,
but now i feal like it actualy purified it...
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I'm trying to unfuck my sig.
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05-11-2005 02:43 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
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the downfall of relgion, other than the mass marketing, for something that's individual and personal, is the abstract idea's it offers.
most people cannot think in an abstract way, as all relgious text talks in the abstract, in metaphores, what others call riddles. this makes it personal for anyone who read's it because it is your interpetation of what the nature of the message is about.
fundemantalist, taliban, american christians alike, don't see past the metaphores. they take literally what is not ment to be literal. they cannot think in the abstract and thus need a symbolic repersenation to fallow, and be told what it is.
they have the cross to look at when they pray, and they have priest to tell them what it is they are to fallow. they don't relise the truth is not out there, salvation isn't nailed to a cross, or hanging around yuor neck, or any symbolic form like that, it's all internal. it's inside your own self.
they hear about souls and all that stuff, and they think of it as an actual thing, not a abstract thing. they hear about heaven and since they have never thought of a place they could not visit, they assumed heaven was a place like that.
abstracts never talk directly about the subject, and most people do talk directly, so they don't understand the difference, everything is talked directly, there's never been a place that talked in the mystifing riddles to them, before. and why should they start now.
christ says chop off your hand for it's bad deed's. christ never spoke directly, but always in metaphores. this sn't ment to be taken literally than, but over time it was by fundamentalist. the other examples go on and on. fueld by power hungry relgious leaders. the greatest con men ever.
bush goes to churh every sunday, and hears about loving thy enemy. what the hell does he think about in church? it's obviously not to what the man at the front is saying. but yet he's a christian, and a good damn christian at they, by most of the american's opnion, even though he not once ever fallowed a single christian ideal. he's just a 'church goer'.
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This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Halph-Price: 05-11-2005 18:19.
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05-11-2005 18:13 |
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Hidden identity
Wicked Producer
Registration Date: 17-02-2005
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is the abstract talk useless?
or how valuable is it compared to direct talk?
to me when someone talks in riddles, and they are un able to then translate that into direct facts, then both the hearer and the speeker do not know anything, its just a little symbolic game that they may be playing for the sheer sake of the emotion that it arouses?
(in thoery^)
a question insights a search for understanding.
factual truth (to me) is far more sharable and useful then abstract religious styled truth.
in a thesaurus id read, quotes about the word religion and its meaning were spoken. "universal obsessive nerosis" was one definition, another said "the elder sister of philosophy".
personaly id say all of those quotes were dimentions of a compount concept, and id only quoted a few.
Jesus's illistrations were symbolic.
back in those days he only got to talk to a large mass of people once and had to basicly yell to crouds.
we wanted them to remember what he had said after only hearing it once. people didnt have tape recorders back then.
these factors effected the way that he would teach.
they were not often abstract, (but prophesies in the book of daniel or revelations would be what id call more abstract or symbolic).
What if he was not being abstract at all,
what if this basic concept that jesus said was actualy common sence and somthing that was mean to promote logic and balance?
if one of your sensory organs or body parts were very attached to somthing, and this imbalance was not for the greater good of the individual as a whole organism, perhaps it would be wizer to destroy the one body part for the sake of your life, instead of destroying your life for the sake of one body part. also was this literal? jesus obviously never had a problem with self infliction or self mutalation, instead it was often written about him curing desease or defect.
If some one is full of shit then they take some logic, then they apply one part of it in an imbalanced way and make it apear to be wrong.
all of you here today have already experianced this phinominon^
It is not the fault of the concept or logic, but the fault of the method it is applied. methodology is the main factor in each sect of those who claim to be christian yet are each difforent.
example : prodestant vs roman catholic.
Halph price, you had sighted a very partial quote from Matthew 5:30.
please (in the future) quote full verses next time if you can, thanks.
(new world translation, Matthew 5:30)
"Also, if your right hand is making you stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you. For it is more benifiical to you for one of your members to be lost then for your whole body to be pitched into Gehenna."
if i remember right Gehenna was a waste disposal area in isrial that was used to burn garbage and things like that, or the bodies of criminals who had committed very bad crimes were thrown there instead of a decent burrial.
in theory this scripture was infact talking about somthing like...
maybe too much desire in one area of your being, causeing you to do somthing very bad for the health of you or someone else around you,
which would basicly be a henious crime.
^
this is an example of someone looking at a verse not literaly,
but with background information and aslo trying to combine a verse with common sence and balance.
it is my religios haritage to try to do this, because id been born a jehovah's witness, but at the same time i dont feal truely comfortable with any religious group anymore...
remember to that the way people spoke and compared one thing to another back in the jewish times, during the times when greek or roman powers controled the jews politicaly, was around the time when jesus was around.
this drastic change in culture makes it harder to understand what they are often talking about, so when trying to get a vers's true meaning, my two options here are either deep research, or common sence. 
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i would feal presumtuious if i flat out said all religion was abstract.
id guess it contains a varying amount of abstract, symbolic, false, true, factual or philisophical type concepts in each religious belief.
Remember to that the reason why people even value religion is because of how its relative to human desire, much like technological invenction is an extention of human will.
human will can be extreamist and imbalanced, or benificial.
same is true with religion.
id heard that, one thing almost every religion contains is some sort of list of methods set out to gain salvation.
during my worst times, id thought:
"why dont those skitzofrenic jews just shut the fuck up!?"
during my most inraptured or smug times id thought the bible had an answer to every problem a person ever had...
^now i think niether of these, and if i ever did, maybe it was like an imature phase?
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when making a general collective judgement about a religious faith,
id personaly like to know the root or perpose of the laws and methodolagy. The buddah didnt claim to be a god, and he wanted to liborate humans from suffering. To me it is a philosophy, a way of thinking and living that does not change physics or genetic status as a species, but changes emotional and mental state.
Yes you wouldnt feal much suffering if you didnt want anything,
but there are things beyond the initial sensory responce of the organism. there are (as you already well know) things that feal good but are bad for you, or feal bad and are good for you.
So this good that im describing here today,
is always relative to the long term existance of the organism.
This form of "good" is what i consider to be common sence, humain values and logical action. This can exist within an atheist or a religious person. Next:
ive guessed that all of the meekness and self sacraficing themes of the bible and the new commandment (laws after jesus for christians instead of the old mosaic code)
were all about the humain values and logical action.
i would dare say that anyone could become a true christian, the second they become loving and humain. if not in full then atleast in a large part.
(hope no one burns me for that.. lo
)
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i havent realy done THAT much research about religion,
so i dunno about the focus of the origonator of each and all religious belief, but i can tell you that it does deviate and change with time.
just remember that religion is a compound concept,
lots of difforent religions can exist and contradict each other.
also remember that when you are extreamist about somthing,
then it will easily become evil.
(from the crusades all the way up to hitler and natzis, alot of that was about being self rightious or absolutist in moral codes, an imbalanced judgemenet also seen in terrorism.)
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I'm trying to unfuck my sig.
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05-11-2005 19:26 |
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djfreemc
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Hidden identity
The buddah didnt claim to be a god, and he wanted to liborate humans from suffering. To me it is a philosophy, a way of thinking and living that does not change physics or genetic status as a species, but changes emotional and mental state.
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Isn't that what all religions are: a philosophy, a way of thinking, acting and living?
| quote: |
Originally posted by Hidden identity
i would dare say that anyone could become a true christian, the second they become loving and humain. if not in full then atleast in a large part.
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I pretty much agree on that one. Being a christian has nothing to do with going to church every sunday, having a nap while some priest is mumbling things you don't understand. I understand every religion has its rituals, allthough I don't see the use in most of them. Jesus said (not an exact quote, I don't have a bible or something around) : Break this bread and drink this wine to remember me. My interpretation of it: Enjoy your life, and share your joy with others in every way you can.
He said nothing about gather every seven days to watch someone break a bread and drink wine and be bored instead of using your time for something usefull.
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The mysteries of the distorted snare...
Can't win if u don't play
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05-11-2005 20:33 |
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Hidden identity
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| quote: |
| Break this bread and drink this wine to remember me |
wel there is the yearly memorial were we remember jesus "sacraficial" death...
then the every 7 days with was the sabath and part of the old mosaic code.
Exodus 31:16,17 is about the sabath commandment.
The weekly Sabbath was made an integral part of a system of sabbaths when the Law of the covenant was formally inaugurated at Mount Sinai.
The sabatg was celebrated as a sacred day, a day
of rest and rejoicing for all ilein residents, isrealites, servants and animals i think... from what ive read. also stuff related to expressing or studieing of their religious belief was also done on the sabbath day during their free time.
i think that you are talkin about the weekly sabbath that is no longer required. but that break this bread and remember me thing sounds like the memorial the night before judas betrayed jesus.
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and about rituals, i agree they should be logical and not useless repetitions.
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i hope i cleared that up a bit for you; if you realy want i could make like... an essay about the memorial, its like the only celebration that i know of that jesus said for us to do.
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I'm trying to unfuck my sig.
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05-11-2005 21:17 |
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