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Sublow Secrets

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broadside broadside is a male

mentalist

Registration Date: 17-01-2005
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how do you go about getting a nice fat present but undistorted low to sub bass line, the kind that you feel more than hear? I think it makes all the difference to a tune.

like vst wise, eqing / compression tips etc.

This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by broadside: 21-07-2005 00:13.

21-07-2005 00:10

@1$-)
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waves maxx bass.
waves c4.
psp mix bass.

21-07-2005 00:37

Halph-Price Halph-Price is a male

Zombie Algorithm

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1) filtering the low end out of everything else that doesn't need to,
2) cutting the lowend off the kicks at about 10-40hz.
3) i don't know aobut waves, but PSPP MixBass rocks some gooood deepends, out of anything.
4) try adding a sub sine and make it follow the bassline an octave to just a nice top end of a bass, can make a clear bassline follow, nothing that phat though, but deep clean sine it is the perfect bass note.

5) also becareful of making too much bass, because if anything does clip, you'll loose all the sound and there won't be a nice deep bass but crackling and nothing deep.

6) making the kick go at the the start of the bass. gives a good natural punch to any bassline, no matter how funky it's gunna be, to punch in nicly, you need that kick and bass correlation.
making the phase align with the kick and bass attack, so that there's only a spike in sound and not a subtraction.

i got some of these tips from music canada mag. i picked up at music school.

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21-07-2005 02:16

Arkitekt Arkitekt is a male

Brain Fried Amen Bastard

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21-07-2005 11:14

Greyone Greyone is a male

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Registration Date: 01-04-2005
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Creating a sub is allways the most difficult part.

No that i have a decent speaker , i hear that my tracks don't have a sub , so i have to remake them all (bussy now).

My way with FruityLoops 4.0:
- take a bass
- make a slo bassline (bwa bwaaa ...)
- turn the cut knob to a minimum (allmost quiet)
- get to yo mixer-master and select '7 band eq.' , 'FruityBloodOverdrive' and 'FruityFreeFilter'
-Eq : cut everything above 250Hz , boost below 250Hz
-Pump up the volume with Overdrive 'gain'-button and 'amp'
- filter the whole

now you should get a decent sub.
And if it ain't take another bass-sample
...or get a sub-sample.

Pleased

23-07-2005 17:54

D2o

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Registration Date: 30-05-2005
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-use any synth and load up a sine wave in tune with the part u want the bass to be deeper. then put it to the lowest octave u can before it sound too low.

-cut any freq below 25-30Hz.....thers not much point keeping them most speakers can't reproduce it. and by doing this the whole mix down will ave more head room.

-compress with quite a quick attack and release and use quite a high ratio, not too nuch thought other wise it will make the tune grate on you if u take out all the dynamics.

-then filter it so its just pure sub.
don't use any resonace. you may be boosting clashing frequncies with your kick.

-then maybe put a 808 kick IN TUNE at the begining of every sub note (before the compession and filter) if you've got a staby bass line.
i must stress in to have this in tune or it will sound shit.

then hopefully u should have some lovely sub.

this is how i do it,
some might think its a shit way of doing it, but it works for me

hope this is useful Bigup

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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by D2o: 23-07-2005 21:35.

23-07-2005 21:32

optikal_assassin optikal_assassin is a male

|da jungle snipa|

Registration Date: 18-07-2005
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For me personally, I just use nothing more than eq'ing for my bass subs. For me I like to push the bass as hard as possible between 40-60Hz to where it just starts to clip, not enough to where it distorts, but enough to know it's there. It's really tricky tho trying to lay the right amount of bass without robbing from the rest of the mix. I'm not sure just about sub bass tho as normally I always layer a filtered distorted bassline over top of my sub, helps keep a warmer bass sound without having to distort the lower end too much. I'm a big fan of usin 808 bass drums for sub action most of the time as you can adjust the attack on the drum to give you a more smooth warm sound or a puchy agressive stab. I'm not a major compression guru when it comes to bass as it's still something I'm working on myself tho. But for the real heavy low end, especially if your system can handle it, push the hell out of the 40-60Hz range and cut off below that unless you know your system and everyone elses can reproduce that low. Overall it's really hard to say the best way to get that good sub end as for me, it's different on each track and I have to approach it differently each time.

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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by optikal_assassin: 26-07-2005 02:08.

26-07-2005 02:07

TechDiff
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I think the easiest way is to double up the bass line with sine wave on the same notes, other waves dont work as once they get beyond a certain point they just turn into farts, not notes.
Another thing worth baring in mind is the EQing, not so much the sub but everything else. Most noises will have a degree of low frequencies in them so carefull EQing is required, especially on the Kick and pads etc. For the kick the main body is usually 70-100 Hz and anything below isnt really too important, but do add a bit of mid-high end to keep the punch. Another helpful tool if you've got one is a multiband compressor. This allows you to have different compression setting your different frequency ranges. So you can have quite heavy compresion on the kicks without it causing the sub or anything else to dip in volume.
But the most important thing with sub is to always ensure that you mix at a fairly high volume, not through headphone. Otherwise you'll adjust the bass so it sounds good at a low volume, but as soon as its turned up it'll become overpowering and just silly. Although DnB is fairly dependent on Sub youd be suprised how little you really need, any decently mixed tune has sub in it but even when turned right up retains a good level of clarity. Its also worth baring in mind that with a room full of people the high frequencies will be absorbed alot while the bass is always fairly present. This is why you can only hear the mid and low end when standing outside a club

26-07-2005 12:17

spudleyq spudleyq is a male

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It all depends on whether or not you want a "punchy" sub, reminiscent of a booming 808 kick, or if you want a flat-line rolling sub; sustained and constant.

Punchy:

It's all about the volume envelope. Extremely low attack, if any, followed by no hold, no decay, low sustain, and the appropriate release. The release is going to be the dampening of the sub, so you have to adjust the sustain and the release in order to suit your own needs. This envelope can easily be applied to a simple sine wave, if you're looking for clean, smooth subs, or a square wave if you're looking for a little more "buzz" in your sub. You can also add a slight pitch envelope to your sub, in order to give you those descending bass hits that start in your chest, and eventually find their way down to your feet. Others here have mentioned "bass boosters" such as; MixBass, MaxxBass, and whatever other VST's that might exist out there, but in my opinion, these are completely unnecessary, and I have never needed them. If you're using an enveloped sine synth at low freq's, then there's no need for any sort of bass boost.......because that's all you have.......bass. Eq'ing is still important though. Everyone here has the right idea with bass, cut everything above 250Hz, and make sure you do a low cut at 20-30Hz. Another good idea for this, is to take a distorted bassdrum, the kind you would use for hard trance, hardcore, hard house, you know the ones I'm talking about, and layer it over top of your punchy sub hits. You'll have to properly eq these in order to reduce the sub freq's of the dist. hit, and allow the clean sub to find its way through. This result is desirable for anyone here who enjoys those fast paced (usually filtered) grimey bass hits that sound like someone is screaming into your eardrum.

Constant:

This one's easy: Just keep the sustain up, and try not to have too high of a release, you don't want your sub notes overlapping eachother. Eq these the same way.

Now, the biggest reason why your sub bass might not sound as loud and rumbling as you'd like, could be because you're not cutting the sub freq's out of your other elements. I use a frequency analyzer, spectrum analyzer, or some other kind of visual frequency readout in order to see which of my elements need cutting. Your reece (mid bass) will most likely need drastic cutting, and even things like your snares and hi-hats could quite possibly have lower freq's that needn't be there. Techdiff mentioned multiband dynamics processors, which are fucking phenomenal for adjusting your bass. I'd also like to add to his comment on monitoring. I read somewhere that the industry standard for monitoring, is somewhere around 68 dB, which, according to the article, is right around the level of a movie theatre. This, along with the proper monitoring speakers, can make your bass go a long way. Freq's sound different at different levels, and even though it sounds really good at a low level, like Techdiff said, once you turn it up it just sounds silly.

God I love sub bass. Tongue

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This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by spudleyq: 26-07-2005 15:57.

26-07-2005 15:47

cynik

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for the useful tips man

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26-07-2005 16:06

Arkitekt Arkitekt is a male

Brain Fried Amen Bastard

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hell yesh big ups to the rollers for the tips

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DARKLAND144
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26-07-2005 20:32

ethex

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gonna try that shi*!

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29-07-2005 18:20

Friscko Friscko is a male

Aron Tinnitus

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quote:

originally posted by greyone
- get to yo mixer-master and select '7 band eq.' , 'FruityBloodOverdrive' and 'FruityFreeFilter'
-Eq : cut everything above 250Hz , boost below 250Hz
-Pump up the volume with Overdrive 'gain'-button and 'amp'
- filter the whole

now you should get a decent sub.
And if it ain't take another bass-sample
...or get a sub-sample.

use 3*osc, take 3 sine waves, turn crs whole the way left.After do what greyone says in the quote above.
I've got boomin bass now, but on headphones you cant hear it Frown

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29-07-2005 19:44

ethex

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mine worked well! Smile

thanks,mates!

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29-07-2005 20:40

Friscko Friscko is a male

Aron Tinnitus

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[taken from this months issue of Knowledge magazine (2.60)]

quote:

But what about EQing bass? "It's good to mix basses up, in regard to layering. For example with a high bass and a low bass. This provides a contrast and helps a crowd to feel the depth of it better. Sine waves are an easy choise to make bass - and for a good reason - they sound great."

Some of us don't have the expierience of playing our tunes in big clubs and don't quite now what Hz ranges to accentuate. In light of this, what frequencies should we generate our sine waves at?
"50Hz for a deep, fat bass," reveals Lemon D. "This'll always sound massive in a club. Also, if you want to give your bass more punch I suggest boosting it around 100 to 120Hz by 1.5 to 2 dB. Make sure this doesn't clash with your kicks though."

THANK YOU LEMON D!!!! Big Grin

really a sine wave (bass) boosted at 50Hz sounds Shocked

even on my 'only' 80W speakers Bigup

check it out

or boost at 33Hz and give the ladies a VERY nice time Big Grin

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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Friscko: 28-08-2005 19:33.

28-08-2005 19:17

short-wave short-wave is a male

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there is a lot of ways to get the best bass. just clean up whateva sample you are using and resample over again and again eqing each time. it seems like patience is the major factor. after all that great advice in this thread, thats all you will need.

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SLVG

03-09-2005 12:02

gls
Steppa

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quote:

50Hz for a deep, fat bass

I just thought I'd say, in case anyone doesn't know, that 50Hz is between a G1 and a G#1. It might be something to consider when making your next bass line.

http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html

03-09-2005 13:19

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