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the taking of innocent life should be frowned upon by everyone.....no points have really been proven other than look what we can do with with some c4. but theres so much more to this than meets the eye
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07-07-2005 17:18 |
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Emblem-X 
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| quote: |
Originally posted by MUNKI C
but theres so much more to this than meets the eye |
idd
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07-07-2005 17:21 |
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broadside
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what do you mean, more than meets the eye? not quite understood what your on about there.
oh and try the muslim fundamentalist dickheads who just blew all those people to shit for clear bad guys . . .
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07-07-2005 18:46 |
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| quote: |
Originally posted by broadside
what do you mean, more than meets the eye? not quite understood what your on about there.
oh and try the muslim fundamentalist dickheads who just blew all those people to shit for clear bad guys . . . |
well i mean what i say....theres more to it than what you know.ok people are dead...thats not right!!! but....yknow life isnt just black n white.theres a grey area to.....
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07-07-2005 19:21 |
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cynik
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what munki c is trying to say.. correct me if Im wrong.. there is that human angle of view saying killing people is wrong
put aside that and you see the cold hearted modern-world's economy needs... everything is about interests, every modern war is about money
selling weapons is for example the U.S. prime budget-filling source
and there is that oil thing this whole muslim's anger shit started from in the first place
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07-07-2005 19:56 |
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broadside
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| quote: |
Originally posted by cynik
and there is that oil thing this whole muslim's anger shit started from in the first place |
Can't agree there mate. The Muslim beef with the west, whoever started it, goes back a long long time before oil based industries and modern day capitalism. Its an old old confrontation if you ask me.
anyway, sad day
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07-07-2005 20:59 |
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yeh its a very old confrontation.....and has a lot to do with religion....but its not necesserily true these are the people that did it.....dont believe the truth!!!! do you know what propaganda means?!?!?!?!
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07-07-2005 21:08 |
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cynik
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okay, there is religious dissagreements by the muslims from way back
don't think I'm defending them, no way!!! I despise all religoius type of dissagreement, it's a matter of choice really
they have this word.. "jihad" which means holy war... which they wage upon all disbelievers... I know they have a word from their 'bible', kuran, by which they call all people that don't believe in alah, translated it means something like "man whose soul is less worth than cattle's"
but in this day and time the oil thing is what got them to be like this IMO
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07-07-2005 21:13 |
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cynik
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| quote: |
Originally posted by broadside
| quote: |
Originally posted by cynik
okay, there is religious dissagreements by the muslims from way back
don't think I'm defending them, no way!!! I despise all religoius type of dissagreement, it's a matter of choice really
they have this word.. "jihad" which means holy war... which they wage upon all disbelievers... I know they have a word from their 'bible', kuran, by which they call all people that don't believe in alah, translated it means something like "man whose soul is less worth than cattle's"
but in this day and time the oil thing is what got them to be like this IMO |
Interesting. I have to respectfully disagree though, simply because of this: would your average Joe Suicide Bomber really blow himself up for oil? Come on . . . .
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not directly. don't be blind not to see the simple connection: US with the help of Britain attacks Iraq and Afghanistan. terrorist avenge that by doing attacks on major cities....
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08-07-2005 00:05 |
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KoFFiE
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Emblem-X
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myea.. it's sad.. from both sides. It's a war without a clear good guy and a clear bad guy imo.. |
Exactly. If you check the history of that whole thing (medieval crusades -> world war 2 -> cold war -> Iran v.s. Iraq -> US v.s. Iraq -> 9/11 -> afghanistan -> iraq again), you see the whole thing is just f*cked up by both "sides", which are - like it or not - the western world and the midlde-east. But that's offtopic here 
@all the ppl criticizing live8 - live8 tries to do "something", what are you doing or trying to do? Nothing... At least they're doing something, for whatever reason you may believe, but I don't think it's to justify their own wealth, it's just because those artists have the possibility and visibility to bring those problems to ppl's attention. So unless you are doing wonderfull things for those poor ppl in africa - stop critisizing the thing, they're not doing anything wrong or do they? So stop being such a hypocrit that only wants to see what you want to see and shut up. It's not because they're "commercial" or "popular" that they can't judge right from wrong, and that they do everything in the name of money or just to polish their own image. Paul McCartney (main organiser of live8 ) doesn't have to do that. He could as well spend the rest of his life in a castle ignoring what happens the rest of the world, no-one could critisize him for doing that, cause everybody else is doing the same thing. Now you guys are critisizing him cause he tries do bring some problems to your attention - cause be honest, do you really think about the problems he touched with live8 every day? They just made you think about them - and that's exactly what's the whole point about the thing. If you're so blind you can't see that - grow up...
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08-07-2005 10:50 |
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cynik
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I'd like to believe that.. it's just maybe the world became so full of dissapointment which makes me a little sceptical about such things
but it would be nice if they prove that wrong 
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08-07-2005 11:02 |
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broadside
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| quote: |
Originally posted by cynik
not directly. don't be blind not to see the simple connection: US with the help of Britain attacks Iraq and Afghanistan. terrorist avenge that by doing attacks on major cities.... |
chronology problem there mate . . . afghsnistan happened after the two towers no? and its not as if the people blowing themselves up etc come form war stricken homes with grudges against america. many of them are raised in western countries, third or fourth generation immigrants. so what on earth could be motivating them to blow people up? um let me see . . . their religion which endorses it.
i'm on neither side clearly though, and as far as that goes, your right its not that clear cut. my problem comes in that i also dislike the overly materialistic egocentric development of the west, and as far as that goes, agree with some of the muslim beef. on the other hand, i resent their alternatives, their methods, and most of all their consistently expansionist and aggressive history. say what you will about the crusades - i do history and im convinved the europeans weren't quitre as bad as the revisionist would have you believe. even allowing that an teh albigensian stuff aswell, you have to ask, out of the three major world religions (Jewish, Muslim, CHristians) who are the only ones not invopved in beating shit out of each other at teh moment?
as for LIve8, Koffie I think perhaps your the one who needs to grow up if you take that all at face value. ITs a big red herring, even if admitedly ther are some genuine, if decieved, people behind it. IN AFrica, the problem is not the money they owe etc, half so much as the corrupt governments who steal whatever aid we give them (although werent we being blamed for interfering in other peoples countries just a while back?) If we gave them a shit load of money, it would get mainly mopped up by the leaders of these countries, who would probablyspend the money on weapons. I think Bush should pay em a visit . Discuss.
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08-07-2005 17:52 |
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tetsuo
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| quote: |
Originally posted by broadside
i'm on neither side clearly though, and as far as that goes, your right its not that clear cut. my problem comes in that i also dislike the overly materialistic egocentric development of the west, and as far as that goes, agree with some of the muslim beef. on the other hand, i resent their alternatives, their methods, and most of all their consistently expansionist and aggressive history.
If we gave them a shit load of money, it would get mainly mopped up by the leaders of these countries, who would probablyspend the money on weapons. I think Bush should pay em a visit . Discuss. |
fully second m8!
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08-07-2005 18:13 |
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cynik
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@broadside
chronology problem? get outa here. Iraq invasion aka "Desert Strike" in 1996, remember? all of those moslem countries had a grudge..
that was wrong enough.. only an idiot approves such actions.... as for all the others in which the USA and satelite countries used force..
the Afghan moslems are mad tho and the latest Nato actions will provide many years of suffering for those countries...
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08-07-2005 18:39 |
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broadside
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yeah but that was completely different. We didnt invade iraq proper in the first place, only a bit to which Iraq had a dubious claim anywy, sexcondly, they were gassing the Kurds. It was the right thing to do. But if you want really want to go back, see "who started it", you havce to look at the behaviour of muslims from about 600AD onwards: they imeediately started, fuelled by their aggressive religion, to forcibly take over huge tracts of the world and have done so where possible ever since imo. THey act the injutred partyin JErusalem with Israel etc, and in truth they probably are. But the crusades, for example, only came after muslims forcibly took over the middle east.
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by broadside: 08-07-2005 18:54.
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08-07-2005 18:54 |
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cynik
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08-07-2005 19:12 |
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