 What do you start with ? |
PassDa J. 
Sliced Slasher
Registration Date: 16-05-2005
Posts: 481
Helpfulness rating:
 |
|
Yoyo, I think this is a very important question for beginner-producers like me :
If you start makin' a song, what do you start with? Do you start makin' your drum-line? Or do you look for a nice tune? ...
Normally I just start with a drum-line ...
__
.JPG)
|
|
|
26-06-2005 12:22 |
|
|
dNk
Cool Steppa
Registration Date: 29-02-2004
Posts: 151
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
Everyone does as it conveniently, but I have found for myself in my opinion a right variant 
Before beginning a track you should already know think over it, you should have idea, the main idea which you will try to reflect in your track
Personally I always on a miscellaneous start to embody the idea in a reality, proceeding from that that mine favourite business to program a drum lines that from it I and I begin basically, only I do not that that leaves, all I try to finish them what they sounded how I want it and unimportantly what is the time will borrow it from me, the main patience without it you not get anything 
Then it will be necessary to pick up the basic sound which to sound during all track, the main sound which will be the main highlight of your track, i mean you should lay the foundation, the idea on which you already will build up to taste then as on bricks the track
Not necessary start track to processing drum lines if you dont like it
Do what you want but remmber you need put an idea to your track , then it will be interesting , and its not necessary how people feel it , cause its your idea not them and you make music for ur self and its they problems to agree with your idea or not 
i hope you understand me
peace
|
|
|
26-06-2005 13:15 |
|
|
PassDa J.
Sliced Slasher
Registration Date: 16-05-2005
Posts: 481
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
It was a little complicating to read your text but I understand what you're trying to say ... 
__
|
|
|
26-06-2005 13:48 |
|
|
Emblem-X
Master Producer
Registration Date: 10-11-2002
Posts: 2,135
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
I start with gathering some samples that might work toghether, that way I allready have an idea in what direction the vibe/sound is gonna evolve.
Then it's chopping up breakz, recombining them, layering them, making new breakz.
andf from that point off, I just start building melodies/soundscapes, I keep on searching samples throughout the whole track with my cdcollection near me
hehehe
__
|
|
|
26-06-2005 14:26 |
|
|
Friscko
Aron Tinnitus
Registration Date: 12-03-2005
Posts: 4,467
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
|
|
26-06-2005 15:38 |
|
|
Greyone
Master Producer
Registration Date: 01-04-2005
Posts: 6,285
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
First the amen. Then save it as wav and use it as a sample. Then you're able to do anything with it (reverse , better soundquality,cutting , ...)
Then the other sounds (synths , basses , background ,...)
Then making the intro , breaks and outro (ruff structure)
Then the Fx (fading in , out , plugings , ...)
Then ... until you're done
|
|
|
26-06-2005 20:31 |
|
|
Friscko
Aron Tinnitus
Registration Date: 12-03-2005
Posts: 4,467
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
| quote: |
Originally posted by greyone
First the amen. Then save it as wav and use it as a sample. Then you're able to do anything with it (reverse , better soundquality,cutting , ...)
|
nooo, use amens only as "backin break" not as main break, make yer own breaks, it's more fun and sounds more original
__
www.myspace.com/arontinnitus
www.myspace.com/djfriscko
|
|
|
26-06-2005 21:17 |
|
|
Darkside
Old-School Rolla
Registration Date: 02-01-2005
Posts: 620
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
|
ah, you can do either way, but its better to layer your own breaks over it, because it at least adds your touch to it and makes it less like blatantly copying the winstons' break.
|
|
|
27-06-2005 02:44 |
|
|
Muad'Dib
Andrejnalin
Registration Date: 02-12-2003
Posts: 4,197
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
Damn that amen/tramen shit!! Make your own breaks, damn it
no offence, but that is boring
__
Thinking about becoming an Image-Line/FL Studio customer? Want a 10% reduction in price? Use this affiliate link:
http://affiliate.image-line.com/BADEBDG473
There is no such thing without its opposite
-Bene Gesserit
|
|
|
27-06-2005 04:29 |
|
|
Sykotic
Cool Producer
Registration Date: 12-05-2005
Posts: 202
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
It all depends on if you already have an idea or not...
If I have an idea for a bassline or melody, I'll throw a temporary Kick Snare pattern (or sampled break) together real quick to serve as a reference. Then come back later and work the beats.
If I have an idea for a beat, then I'll start by getting the basic idea together with any old drum sounds, then scroll through and find the right drum sounds once I have the pattern down. It helps if you are able to picture in your head how to program beats, that way if you are out somewhere and suddenly have an idea, you can write down the pattern instead of trying to remember. If you cant do this try carrying some type of recorder and record yourself beatboxing or humming the basic idea you want to remember.
But if I do not have any ideahs I usually just start by finding sounds that work well together. It helps to get a good loop of your tracks main hook together and then work on variations, builds, drops, etc... 
good luck, hope this is somewhat helpful
__
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Sykotic: 27-06-2005 04:34.
|
|
|
27-06-2005 04:33 |
|
|
Nosrac
Bag of Hammers
Registration Date: 15-12-2004
Posts: 599
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
I read an interview with Teebee (thanks Stu) and he said you should start with your lowest frequencies first i.e. sub and kick drum, making sure they are in discrete frequency bands with the bd giving the punch and the sub giving the "poof" sound out of your speaker ports.
Personally, I've made the mistake of adding sub very last. As for the rest of the elements I do (in order) hats, bd, sn, bass reece, mid reece/hoovers, melodic synths, atmos and then finally use amens, toms, stopped cymbals, abrupt sounds etc. to cut in and add some evil variations. Vocals would come very last. Knick from E.I. pointed out that the key to his back and forth mayham is to actually make two seperate tracks and then cut back and forth between them (this is what I tried in None Would Escape).
Also when making a track don't forget to mute all other elements and focus on one thing - I've listened to some of my old tracks as a whole, and can't quite put my finger on what sounds so shit, until I tried this and realized every element alone sounded shit! Even try isolating bd, sn, hats etc. by soloing each in your sampler and then mixing it down to audio, allowing you to compress/reverb/eq each on its own - you'll also get better response than the vst's.
__
Tunes pictures and info: Myspace Page
MP3's: Acid Planet Page
|
|
|
27-06-2005 04:45 |
|
|
Greyone
Master Producer
Registration Date: 01-04-2005
Posts: 6,285
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
| quote: |
Originally posted by Friscko
| quote: |
Originally posted by greyone
First the amen. Then save it as wav and use it as a sample. Then you're able to do anything with it (reverse , better soundquality,cutting , ...)
|
nooo, use amens only as "backin break" not as main break, make yer own breaks, it's more fun and sounds more original |
...with amen i meant the drumrolls.
ps: i do make them myself.
|
|
|
27-06-2005 10:24 |
|
|
cynik
Cp6uja
Registration Date: 15-03-2005
Posts: 5,646
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
| quote: |
Originally posted by greyone
First the amen. Then save it as wav and use it as a sample. |
you mean, making the amen by yourself? way to go, but quite a bit on the impossible side IMO..
anyway, I think dNk has the winning formula.. I kinda do it like that too, that is want to try to do it like that, but I experiment much (ie start with different elements in each one) and possibly, that leads to bad products 
what goes wrong is the realization phase - transferring an idea to a full sequenced track.
don't think looking up to renown producers and their ways is such a good thing - though some tips are for sure usable, it's better to find your own way, only then you can make something 'fresh' and 'never heard before'
__
https://soundcloud.com/tsai-vidro-voves
|
|
|
27-06-2005 10:27 |
|
|
Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
Posts: 6,160
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
| quote: |
Originally posted by dNk
Everyone does as it conveniently, but I have found for myself in my opinion a right variant
Before beginning a track you should already know think over it, you should have idea, the main idea which you will try to reflect in your track
Personally I always on a miscellaneous start to embody the idea in a reality, proceeding from that that mine favourite business to program a drum lines that from it I and I begin basically, only I do not that that leaves, all I try to finish them what they sounded how I want it and unimportantly what is the time will borrow it from me, the main patience without it you not get anything
Then it will be necessary to pick up the basic sound which to sound during all track, the main sound which will be the main highlight of your track, i mean you should lay the foundation, the idea on which you already will build up to taste then as on bricks the track
Not necessary start track to processing drum lines if you dont like it
Do what you want but remmber you need put an idea to your track , then it will be interesting , and its not necessary how people feel it , cause its your idea not them and you make music for ur self and its they problems to agree with your idea or not
i hope you understand me
peace |
hard as it was to read, at leat he left an emoticon at the end of every ohter line for use.
the most important thing to start with, is the main idea of the song. so once you find someting that inspires you "sample from a movie, vocal lines, drum line, bassline" than you build around that. what you start with will be the base, the foundation, of the entire song, because you'll be comparing and tuning everything to everything else you hear.
it's best to start with the drop and just make a full freq assault, it's easier to take parts away, and do the intro, because than you got some atmosphere and what type of drum work you got going.
if your drop has very solid 4/4 drum work, than you'd want the intro and breakdownt o be simular. if you have a very jazzy, laidback, swinging rhythem going frot he drums, than you'd need to capture that same swing in your intro. easier to make that with the rhythem templates of the drop.
with a definded rhythem the song sounds more complete sounding, no matter what sounds you have, they'll sound more together because of the simular rhythem.
once you got the first drop, than you got a second drop, just need to tweak the variatons, adapt the basssline, and finish the th e breakdown to the drop.
so, if you have a great vocal sample, start with that, than make drums that go with it, than make a bassline that go with the drums, or whatever. but the first thing you mkae, that you think is vey good, you base around that.
usually it's vocals, if you have them.
__
|
|
|
27-06-2005 16:01 |
|
|
spudleyq
Master Producer
Registration Date: 23-09-2004
Posts: 838
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
| quote: |
Originally posted by muaddib
Damn that amen/tramen shit!! Make your own breaks, damn it
no offence, but that is boring |
It's only boring when you don't know what you're doing with it. If you just loop the same amen over and over and over again, even if you're doing it over top of your own break, it's horribly boring. Now, if you know what you're doing, and you make your breaks exciting, there's nothing wrong with using amens. Amens have always, and will always, be a huge part of dnb. I'd honestly like to see anyone here come up with a completely original break (without using any cut up amens or drum samples taken from an amen sounding break) that slams the floor as hard as an amen does. I seriously challenge someone to do it, because it's basically impossible to make your own break that sounds as fucking homicidal as an amen/tramen/firefight/samurai/horizon-esque break. I mean, there honestly is a reason why just about EVERY single dnb producer has used one of those breaks before.
And that reason is: It fucking slams its way through your bloodstream and implants its crashing cymbals into your ear drums. 
Back on topic, it depends on whether or not I'm making an original tune, or a remix. If I'm making a remix, I start with the original. I listen to the original, decipher the beats, learn the melody, and look for things I can add of my own. I then start laying out the ideas in my head, and I usually start programming them out as I'm coming up with them, that way I don't lose too many. I'll usually start with the beat and/or bass when it comes to remixes.
When it comes to original tunes though, most of my tunes are inspirational. I'll be playing the piano, or messing around with a soft-synth, and either the sound, or the melody I'm fooling around with, will inspire me to make a track out of it. Same goes for bass, sometimes I'll come up with a really good bassline and I'll say, "Damn, that thing deserves a beat." So I'll add a beat. Or, I'll start with the beat, get the idea for the flow of the song. Do I want a breaky song? Or should I go with straight beats?
I honestly don't have a chart written out: "How to start the process of making a tune," it's entirely inspirational, and that's what I think a lot of dnb producers are missing nowadays. Too many people are making tunes regardless of whether or not an idea struck them, they just lay down some loops and maybe jot out a quick little four note melody, "As long as the beat is good", they say. Well, I'm sorry, but that's the reason why there are so many crappy electronica songs out there.
"As long as the beat is good." What, are we making rap music now? 
Seriously though J, if you're not "feeling" the track, there's no point in making it. After many many years of doing this, one major, gigantic, hugely important piece of advice I can give you is this: Don't finish every tune you start.
I know what you may be thinking, "Why start it if you're not going to finish it?" Well, you start it for the practice, for the ideas, for the methods, for the techniques, experimentation is key. If you're not feeling the tune, if it honestly doesn't feel worth it to you, there's no point in continueing it. You make a bunch of mediocre tunes, and release them, and people will expect mediocrity. You may make a couple good tunes here and there, but people won't notice as much because most of your stuff isn't. If you only work on the slammers, you'll only release the slammers, and everyone will think all you make is slammers. Then, when you release a piece of crap tune, no will care, because they know the rest of your tunes are phenomenal.
Hope this has been helpful!
Edit: Sykotic has the right idea by saying you should carry something to either record or jot down your ideas. Your ideas are precious, and you should never let them slip you when you get them out of impulse. Even if it's just a little notebook with a little pen or something. Just so you can jot down the rythm. If you're not familiar with writing down melodies or beats, let me know, there's a couple very reliable ways to learn how to do this, without knowing musical notation and tablatures and what not. Also, don't be afraid to take ideas from other producers. If you're listening to a song, and you hear a kickass drum fill that you've never discovered before, don't be afraid to listen to it again and again or just write it down real quick. I'm not saying make all your songs sound exactly like someone else's, but if you hear a good idea, don't be afraid to use it....if they didn't come up with the idea on their own, they probably did it the same way.
Edit 2: Nosrac also has passed on some very good knowledge. You HAVE to listen to your elements individually. You can't make the entire song with everything playing at once. You have to EQ your bass while you're listening to it on its own. You have to tune your drum samples on their own, but once you place them back into the mix, they may not sound right, so sometimes you have to go back and forth quite a bit. In the mix, out of the mix, in the mix, out of the mix, until they fit. Also, Nosrac is right when he says you should single out each element as much as you can. In fruity loops, I have my hi-hats, snares, bassdrums, and other misc. drum sounds all on their own mixer channels, with their own EQ's, and their own master volume slider. This way, if the snare is too loud, I just turn that down real quick, rather than having to adjust the actual volume of the waveform.....much more efficient in the end. Plus, each individual sample has its own volume knob in the step sequencer, so if one snare is overpowering another, I just turn that one down.
I'm not sure if you use FL though, it doesn't work that way with every sequencer out there.
__
Click on the pic above to visit my music profile on Myspace.
This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by spudleyq: 27-06-2005 16:37.
|
|
|
27-06-2005 16:19 |
|
|
dNk
Cool Steppa
Registration Date: 29-02-2004
Posts: 151
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
i think , who likes maiking first the drum lines , then let they do that , just who likes , about all stuff with drops i think its better when you know how to make your idea for real , just if you start like you said to make the drop , but you dont have any idea how to make it , but you have a wonderfull idea how to make right now a wicked bass so go and make it , cause the most genius ideas born when you not prepeared , not olny when you sitting in your pc , you can just sitting on the toilet and *BUMP* and you have wonderfull idea to make original break that nobody never did this before 
|
|
|
27-06-2005 17:28 |
|
|
Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
Posts: 6,160
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
i don't know about you, but one the toliet, i can get up after i *bump* and do teh bassline. also hard to manipulate samples on the toliet. 
.
it mostly all comes from samples, while on the computer.
__
|
|
|
27-06-2005 17:35 |
|
|
cynik
Cp6uja
Registration Date: 15-03-2005
Posts: 5,646
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
|
|
27-06-2005 18:03 |
|
|
Friscko
Aron Tinnitus
Registration Date: 12-03-2005
Posts: 4,467
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
|
|
27-06-2005 18:28 |
|
|
Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
Posts: 6,160
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
yea, than the radioactive sperm will get through the comdon? who cares about sperm.
__
|
|
|
27-06-2005 18:32 |
|
|
|
