 How to spread drums out?? |
Nosrac 
Bag of Hammers
Registration Date: 15-12-2004
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No matter how much I mix and pan my drums and add reverb I can never seem to get the drums sounding like they are coming out of both speakers hard left and right as well as centre and sitting just behind the bass and reece sounds. They always end up sounding like they're are confined to a narrow column of sound front and centre (see my unfinished version of "None would escape" for a prime example of this).
So far I've tried adding more reverb, and/or using the symphonic plug in in cubase, but those solutions only seem to take all the punch out of the drums. What about other plug ins like abiosome etc.?
I've also tried adding only these effects to the snares and/or hats and leaving the bass drum dry which worked somewhat. But still, when I compare my tracks to something like Evol Intent, my drums sound very one dimensional.
Any advice - please help!!
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31-03-2005 06:47 |
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saphir
Wicked Producer
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31-03-2005 09:04 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
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there are buzz adapters that can help, but you can't use them.
MDA has MDA Detune which add's stero panning.
there's PSP PseudoStereo
reverb should help, you don't need the drums to be comeing from every direction, and really it's only the snare that need's to be the big OOMF of stereo panning. the rest can sit comfortably in the center.
maybe if you didn't make the reece/bassline stero panned also, that would help.
but the thing with the stero expanding, is you do lose punch. it is a cost, talked about it for the new Splinter Cell sound track, how he got the bass sounding RIGHT in your ears, like the left right center panning, like you are talking about. he said he could do it more, but it loses timing, it loses the intial punch.
think of it like a spring reverb, works well on tonal instruments, like basslines and leads, but nothing that is a precussion.
so basicly be happy with a bit of panning, and just try to make the snare the one with reverb on it to give it the stero panning, because reverb doesn't play with the intial attack and keeps the punch.
layer in a snare drum if you're using loops.
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31-03-2005 18:52 |
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Muad'Dib
Andrejnalin
Registration Date: 02-12-2003
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Here is my take on this:
two snares
one, original, panned to the right 30%
second, with slightly lowered pitch, panned to the left 30%
that adds space..
have no idea on other drums though, guess is pretty much the same procedure...
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31-03-2005 22:32 |
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@1$-)
unregistered
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you need a stereo enhancer......waves do a good one......place this on the master channel before limiting..works for me.....youve got to be careful you dont lose to much bass in the mix though.
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01-04-2005 21:13 |
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Surora23
Agressive Melodic Disorder
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i think waht your problem is that youre adding too much compression...what compression essenitally does is make your wav leangt much smaller...if youre adding too much to just hte drums...
i dont honestly know...jsut an idea...
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Rinse it OUT!!!! 
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01-04-2005 21:28 |
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phonatic
Producer
Registration Date: 21-03-2005
Posts: 45
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i do this for my beats...
kick drums and snare drums are always central in my mix (stereo width is 0%)
cyms / hi hats / percussion u can pan left and right, but think of it as tho u are standing infront of a drum kit, so the hi hat would be to the left slightly, crash to the right and so on.
breaks i tend to leave stereo, cos they might have hi hats / cymbals in them
then always center you bass too....
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http://www.thehubnet.co.uk/
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02-04-2005 09:47 |
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Soi
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Registration Date: 29-01-2003
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I would go for the combination of Phonatic's approach (kick + snare in the middle and hihats/cymbals/toms slightly panned) + saphir's approach (double your drumtrack into a stereotrack with hard panning)
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02-04-2005 10:57 |
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Surya
The Robot
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I use spreaded samples. I spread them in a wave editor by, among other things, moving one channel a bit to the front, cutting the very first part off.
A bit of chorus or unison helps too, and offcourse reverb. But don't overdo it!
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"In dnb you should make people jump not swim"
- Pieter Frenssen 2004
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02-04-2005 11:01 |
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Soi
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Could you give a lil bit more info on why exactly you do it that way? To me it seems that you still get a l or r-panned result, which is, i think not the best idea for kicks/snares.
I like the idea of putting one channel a bit more upfront and using a VERY short fade-in, btw.
Unison is a very useful tool indeed to give your drums their vitamine C
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a myspace
my tunes
"I'm not under the alkafluence of inkahol that some thinkle peep I am.
It's just the drunker I sit here the longer I get."
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02-04-2005 11:53 |
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Nosrac
Bag of Hammers
Registration Date: 15-12-2004
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Thanks for all the great responses - I rarely use compression across the whole kit so that's not the problem (and compression affects the amplitude not the wavelength/pitch) and I have been panning my kit to mimic a real kit. But I think I definitely need to pick up the waves production pack (where? price?) and try duplicating the track and panning it. Right on lads - I'll try this out when I do the finished version of None would Escape.
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Tunes pictures and info: Myspace Page
MP3's: Acid Planet Page
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02-04-2005 23:12 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
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oooo, panning to get it sound like your listening to a REAL drum set, like the snare a bit to the right, hihats hard right, toms on the right?
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03-04-2005 01:31 |
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phonatic
Producer
Registration Date: 21-03-2005
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Halph-Price
oooo, panning to get it sound like your listening to a REAL drum set, like the snare a bit to the right, hihats hard right, toms on the right? |
yea, except the snare stays central, even tho on a real kit it is slightly panned, you keep it central because its one of the main driving forces of the track (i think 
)
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03-04-2005 06:11 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
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you're right, but have it stero spread
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03-04-2005 06:28 |
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Surya
The Robot
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Soi
Could you give a lil bit more info on why exactly you do it that way? |
OK, small tutorial
I start with a mono hihat
Make it a stereo signal
Move one channel a few miliseconds to the right (I did 10, but I didn't spend much time experimenting on getting it right)
Cut of the parts with silence on the start and finish
Done.
The original file
The enhanced file
Keep in mind I did this very quickly, if you spend some time on this, you can get much better results.
Hope it helps!
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"In dnb you should make people jump not swim"
- Pieter Frenssen 2004
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03-04-2005 10:55 |
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Muad'Dib
Andrejnalin
Registration Date: 02-12-2003
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Surora23
i think waht your problem is that youre adding too much compression...what compression essenitally does is make your wav leangt much smaller...if youre adding too much to just hte drums...
i dont honestly know...jsut an idea... |
What the heck is "jsut" ?!
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03-04-2005 23:11 |
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thechronic
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Registration Date: 01-11-2002
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True that the snare should be mixed in the center while in reality it is slighty panned to allow the drummers leg to be in front of the kick drum 
When micing up a drum kit in the studio the overheads are placed in a way that the snare sits in the center.
Normally you would just use panning, putting stuff hard left and hard right is not really natural. When you use a good stereo reverb and you input the panned elements in stereo you would get a natural sounding stereo drumkit.
Using stereo spreads on percussive sounds is not a very good idea, it will sound smeared.
Surya's technique is a good idea, it gives the impression of a panned sound and it is still coming out of two speakers at the same volume. The more you delay the second channel the more it is panned. This stuff is known as the 'Haas effect' by the way and relates to the way your brain perceives panned sounds - a sound coming from the left would reach your right ear a few milliseconds later, and your brain interprets this correctly as a sound coming from the left.
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04-04-2005 01:08 |
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Surya
The Robot
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| quote: |
Originally posted by thechronic
Using stereo spreads on percussive sounds is not a very good idea, it will sound smeared. |
Takes the punch out of them. You might use it a bit on hats, but never on snares or kicks!
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"In dnb you should make people jump not swim"
- Pieter Frenssen 2004
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04-04-2005 07:31 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
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WHAT ABOUT THE TOM-TOMS!!!!!! 
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04-04-2005 13:53 |
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