 Teebee on Reason |
Halph-Price 
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
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i think the guitar sound, is as bad as crappy techno.
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28-02-2005 17:56 |
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Yawn
Sponsor
Registration Date: 25-01-2005
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Peal Jam have some great albums! admitidly they have a couple of weak ones but vitalogy & vs are classic
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28-02-2005 18:16 |
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lotus
Sexy Steppa
Registration Date: 10-08-2003
Posts: 165
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| well,..... i guess 'the big playaz' are worried about the fact that you don't have to invest in a lot of hardware (that cost a 1000 of dollars) to make a good tune. |
ah honestly I think that's a bit naive... I've gotta agree with Teebee. There's soooo much electronic music out there that is just plain badly produced, crappily mixed and lacking creative ideas or sound banks.
AND I agree with him Reason et al. is one of the factors that have led to this... but, it doesn't mean you can't make a good tune with reason... But I do think you need to master it properly to get the "fatness" in the sound, a nice bit of compression (preferably analogue) and so on... Pure digital just doesn't bring that "warm feeling".
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http://www.hydra-breaks.net
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28-02-2005 20:23 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
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it doesn't have to, does it?
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01-03-2005 00:48 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
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but the same degree of distortion that analog gives, can not be emulated in digital. even simply emulating one resistor to the same quality, is near impossible.
but do you NEED that warm sound? is it because people are use to it, or is there an actual reason.
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01-03-2005 15:00 |
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10Sion
Newbie
Registration Date: 14-02-2005
Posts: 2
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Well, yes... There is a lot of it in that ppl are used to a generic sound feel (in this case ANALOG)... And now in computer age when everybody (or most of) has access to music creation software ppl are starting to make sounds more hmm... different... Maybe we got to get used to that sound. Who knows?
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01-03-2005 16:52 |
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daze_DND
MYSTIC
Registration Date: 01-11-2004
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01-03-2005 17:29 |
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djfreemc
Sponsor
Registration Date: 25-07-2003
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Halph-Price
Even simply emulating one resistor to the same quality, is near impossible. |
True, but it is rather the lack of quality that makes it hard to simulate. An avarage resistor has a tolerance of 10%, and has a parasite capacitance and inductance making it frequency-dependant (Same theory goes for any other electronic component). Furthermore the properties of the components will change with temperature, humidity and time. When simulating a resistor in the most simple way only the resisting component will be accounted for, and it will be perfectly stable.
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The mysteries of the distorted snare...
Can't win if u don't play
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01-03-2005 18:27 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
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that's the quality that is hard to emulate. not the suprior quality.
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01-03-2005 19:11 |
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dirk
Steppa
Registration Date: 14-11-2004
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There is actualy no difference between digital or analoge . But that rule works only if the technologies operate liniair .
The difference between the technologies is how they distort .
Digital produces distortion that has no relation to the input signal , and when you clip digital you get uneven harmonics right up to the upper freq. band . ( 7th , 9th , 11 th , ect ... harmonic )
Analoge distortion does have a relation to the input singal ( It is alway's harmonic )
Opamps produce only uneven harmonic distortion ( 3 5 7 ect ) and the clipping is symetrical
Transistors also has uneven harmonics but they go not that far as opamps , they produce also a litle bit of 4 harmonics and the clipping is a litle bit asymetric .
Tubes produce when cliped lots of 2 and 3 harmonics and not so much of the higher ones . Also simple triode schematics produce 2 harmonics even when you don't clip them and the clipping is very asymetrical .
Analoge tape alway's produces harmonic distortion because the magnetic particles "set" themselfes and when cliped produces just like tubes only the lowes harmonics .
So what happens if you record for example a snare . You set the controles of the micpre and input of the recording device so that you just can't hear the distortion .
If you have used desent digital than your recording will sound prety much like the real thing .
If you have used tubes and tape to record the same snare it will sound much louder because you can clip analoge more before you hear that nasty distortion . And the distortion that you have added sounds very nice .
The result is a bigger than life sound . And that's what we want in populair music . You use the inperfections of analoge to get a huge sound .
Analoge is more idiot proof than digital .
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| And to get the same sound as analoge you simply add the same noise and distortion . |
We just don't completely understand how the analoge distortion works , so analoge has still its uses .
Greetings Dirk .
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02-03-2005 06:40 |
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dirk
Steppa
Registration Date: 14-11-2004
Posts: 184
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I saw this article in the sound on sound some time ago . Its about the korg legacy , what is a software version of the MS20 / Polysix / M1 .
Here you can see very clearly the difference between software synths and hardware synths . First read the article and then take a very close look at the pictures of the saw waveshapes . I think these pictures tell a completely different story . The first harmonic is stronger in the hardware version , this means that the hardware version will sound warmer than the software version . The hardware version also has stronger higher harmonics .
This is exactly the sonic difference between virtual and real synths . Hardware synths sound a lot warmer and richer than their software counterparts .
Here's the article Korg Legacy Collection
And remember this : You can't get good sound with crappy sounding instruments !
Greetings Dirk .
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07-03-2005 04:41 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
Posts: 6,160
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| quote: |
Originally posted by dirk
There is actualy no difference between digital or analoge . But that rule works only if the technologies operate liniair .
The difference between the technologies is how they distort .
Digital produces distortion that has no relation to the input signal , and when you clip digital you get uneven harmonics right up to the upper freq. band . ( 7th , 9th , 11 th , ect ... harmonic )
Analoge distortion does have a relation to the input singal ( It is alway's harmonic )
Opamps produce only uneven harmonic distortion ( 3 5 7 ect ) and the clipping is symetrical
Transistors also has uneven harmonics but they go not that far as opamps , they produce also a litle bit of 4 harmonics and the clipping is a litle bit asymetric .
Tubes produce when cliped lots of 2 and 3 harmonics and not so much of the higher ones . Also simple triode schematics produce 2 harmonics even when you don't clip them and the clipping is very asymetrical .
Analoge tape alway's produces harmonic distortion because the magnetic particles "set" themselfes and when cliped produces just like tubes only the lowes harmonics .
So what happens if you record for example a snare . You set the controles of the micpre and input of the recording device so that you just can't hear the distortion .
If you have used desent digital than your recording will sound prety much like the real thing .
If you have used tubes and tape to record the same snare it will sound much louder because you can clip analoge more before you hear that nasty distortion . And the distortion that you have added sounds very nice .
The result is a bigger than life sound . And that's what we want in populair music . You use the inperfections of analoge to get a huge sound .
Analoge is more idiot proof than digital .
| quote: |
| And to get the same sound as analoge you simply add the same noise and distortion . |
We just don't completely understand how the analoge distortion works , so analoge has still its uses .
Greetings Dirk . |
thank you.
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07-03-2005 14:15 |
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spudleyq
Master Producer
Registration Date: 23-09-2004
Posts: 838
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BULLSHIT!! All these up and comers, and even some veterans...are all sitting out there thinking that if they get expensive hardware or software that their music will automatically sound better. This is true in one sense, the actual digital quality of the sound, may in fact, sound better.......but come on.......a retard using a casio keyboard is still going to be a retard even if he's using a vintage patch-cord synthesizer. I'm not saying you guys are full of bullshit......just that people are full of bullshit. Too many kids are getting into this shit using programs like Reason, Sony Acid Pro, Fruity Loops, and they're just having their parents buy them a shitload of ACID loop CD's, or ReFill CD's so they can play cut and paste and arrange someone else's work into what they call "Their Masterpiece".....it's bullshit!! A monkey with a mouse and a keyboard could make the same shit they're making. Take a synthesizer, fuck with the knobs and buttons, add some crazy FX to it, and THEN you can say you're making music. Even if it sounds like a car-wreck and the digital screeching is causing your parents to become unconscious and the SWAT team is swarming your house on a call for suspected "Audio Terrorism", at least it's FUCKING ORIGINAL!!!
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Click on the pic above to visit my music profile on Myspace.
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07-03-2005 15:30 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
Posts: 6,160
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| quote: |
Originally posted by spudleyq
BULLSHIT!! All these up and comers, and even some veterans...are all sitting out there thinking that if they get expensive hardware or software that their music will automatically sound better. This is true in one sense, the actual digital quality of the sound, may in fact, sound better.......but come on.......a retard using a casio keyboard is still going to be a retard even if he's using a vintage patch-cord synthesizer. I'm not saying you guys are full of bullshit......just that people are full of bullshit. Too many kids are getting into this shit using programs like Reason, Sony Acid Pro, Fruity Loops, and they're just having their parents buy them a shitload of ACID loop CD's, or ReFill CD's so they can play cut and paste and arrange someone else's work into what they call "Their Masterpiece".....it's bullshit!! A monkey with a mouse and a keyboard could make the same shit they're making. Take a synthesizer, fuck with the knobs and buttons, add some crazy FX to it, and THEN you can say you're making music. Even if it sounds like a car-wreck and the digital screeching is causing your parents to become unconscious and the SWAT team is swarming your house on a call for suspected "Audio Terrorism", at least it's FUCKING ORIGINAL!!! |
i agree with that, and nobody can say i don't do that, minus the audio terroist bit, reminds me a friend who made a song Called Audio Terrorist, the key line was sound is my weapon.
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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Halph-Price: 10-03-2005 03:38.
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10-03-2005 03:37 |
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@1$-)
unregistered
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to be honest i reckon he was probably just having a bad day. i moan about shit all the time....i reckon he loves software.He just cant be bothered to re learn it all again, maybe the day he got interviewed his dodgy version of e jay wouldnt boot. 
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24-11-2005 23:22 |
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Surya
The Robot
Registration Date: 04-11-2002
Posts: 11,238
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I guess he's referring to all the premade patches that come with it, and a lot of beginners use them, so they all have that same shitty sound...
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"In dnb you should make people jump not swim"
- Pieter Frenssen 2004
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25-11-2005 07:00 |
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cynik
Cp6uja
Registration Date: 15-03-2005
Posts: 5,646
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25-11-2005 12:30 |
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Arkitekt
Brain Fried Amen Bastard
Registration Date: 13-06-2005
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I dont use patches im proud to say .. i have refills but most of the time i use high quality samples..
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VIRB
DARKLAND144
DARKLAND115
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25-11-2005 12:35 |
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my point was that anyone that wants to make music ,can do so because of the digital revolution (you don't have to rob a bank or so to get yr basic set-up these days...that used to be different!) 
