 Teebee on Reason |
Surya 
The Robot
Registration Date: 04-11-2002
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"I'm still running hardware but I must admit I'm slightly starting to change and I'm terrified. I'm spending more and more time with software but if you listen to all these kids coming through the end result all sounds the same and I acutally blame Reason. Reason is the reason drum & bass to a large extent sounds like shit. Every motherfucking kid out there is sitting with the same presets of beats, the same soft synths, the same filters, the same plug-ins, and if it doesn't sit right there's a little button called 'mixdown' that will let the computer do it for you.That to me was the day the music died."
quote from Knowledge Mag
He's right that if you only use the presets everything sounds the same, but that's the case with EVERY synth (hard- or software) so this only goes for lazy producers. And for the mixdown: if you don't use your ears, it surely will sound like shit, that's not the program's fault.
The problem is not that Reason isn't a good tool imo, but that it makes making music too accesible, so now everyone's making music, and a lot of people doing it have no talent whatsoever. THAT's why a lot of music these days sounds shit. It's not coz of Reason...
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"In dnb you should make people jump not swim"
- Pieter Frenssen 2004
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27-02-2005 12:25 |
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marine289
Wicked Producer
Registration Date: 05-10-2004
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I agree, Surya, but I think Reason is kinda limited cause it doesnt support vst(i). But then again, if you do use vst's, there are also presets.
But I dont agree with Teebee that everyone can make a (good) track, because there are presets. Even if you use presets, you have to know what you are doing...
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27-02-2005 12:34 |
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Surya
The Robot
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Offcourse. Great presets are still great 
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"In dnb you should make people jump not swim"
- Pieter Frenssen 2004
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27-02-2005 12:35 |
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daze_DND
MYSTIC
Registration Date: 01-11-2004
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well,..... i guess 'the big playaz' are worried about the fact that you don't have to invest in a lot of hardware (that cost a 1000 of dollars) to make a good tune.
But saying that the machines do it all for ya is bullshit imo. you still have to have good ideas and then make that into a good tune.... no machine will ever do that for ya.
Stop 'winning' teebee...and get with the program 
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info/tunes :: MySpace
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27-02-2005 12:44 |
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B-complex
Wicked Producer
Registration Date: 07-04-2004
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I don't think that was teebee's point, the point is that there are too much people who just buy reason, drop some presets in and say, hey ! I made this sick new dnb tune.. As far as I know, Teebee used tracker till 1999 making tunes on tracker was not that popular like that fancy machines in reason. On the other hand, big growth of quantity gives also chance to a people who has talent but can't efford expensive hw/sw .. and that's the best and worst thing on reason/fruity etc..
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27-02-2005 13:08 |
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daze_DND
MYSTIC
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| quote: |
Originally posted by B-complex
I don't think that was teebee's point, the point is that there are too much people who just buy reason, drop some presets in and say, hey ! I made this sick new dnb tune.. As far as I know, Teebee used tracker till 1999 making tunes on tracker was not that popular like that fancy machines in reason. On the other hand, big growth of quantity gives also chance to a people who has talent but can't efford expensive hw/sw .. and that's the best and worst thing on reason/fruity etc.. |
i think we all know that dropping some presets in reason/whatever is hardly gonna make a good track.
Making music (with whatever program) has never been more affordable then ever.... i see this as a good thing.It will allow more people to try and make music...with little investment.
Imo: most tunes i like are very well constructed and has a LOT off work on them...when i hear the latest pendulum-track (to name only one) and start to imagen what kind off work that must have gone into the realisation of the tune... 
(good example is that bacteria remix they did....still amazes me everytime i put it on).
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info/tunes :: MySpace
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27-02-2005 13:46 |
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Surya
The Robot
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Yeah, good tunes take a lot of time. My best tune (thats what people say about it) I spent over 2 months on, working on it several hours a day, every day...
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"In dnb you should make people jump not swim"
- Pieter Frenssen 2004
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27-02-2005 14:05 |
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dirk
Steppa
Registration Date: 14-11-2004
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I agree with both of you .( teebee , surya )
95% of the soundquality has to do with the musician not with what they use !!!
But you can't alter the character of the instruments used . This sounds like total nonsence at first sight because if you put an effect on a sound it changes and when you use vcf's ect. the sound is totaly different from before . Wel yes its different thats tru , but you did not change the "character" of the sound . Thats why a moog sounds like a moog and a roland sounds like a roland and reason sounds like reason and fruity like fruity . Also think about how fast you recognize a voice thru a gsm , its almost instant and that sound is realy fucked up .
Greetings Dirk .
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27-02-2005 15:21 |
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marine289
Wicked Producer
Registration Date: 05-10-2004
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lol, dirk, almost all stuff you post here are wise words
But that's good, I can always use some advice etc. At least you sound like you know a lot about what you are talking about. Likewise for thechronic and others 
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27-02-2005 22:43 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
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i like some of the personal artist's thought, that experiment, and don't use the smooth sounds. even though it's digital i shouldn't sound great.
what's Mixdown though? i have used reason before, but i have never heard abou that before?
presets are made to sound big, and beefy, and impressive, on their own. mixed in with other sounds, there complete shit, becasue it's a bunch of full sounds conflicting.
i don't have presets with my reason, so i don't have that problem
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maybe they should remove presets, and make people read the manule.
if i do use presets, i use them as was intended, as a base, to change and tweak. than diferent effects, and try to come out with unique sounds, everytime. I think it's a crime to JUST use a preset.
Drum n' Bass in particular has a lot of distinc, pre-used sounds. Amen, for example, is widly used. than the hoover. and several other.
Drum n' Bass, in my opnion, is about being experimental, and open, not re-using, the same sound, it should be evoleing. these kids now and days, are reusing all that same bull-shit sound. ya, it may sound good for so-and-so, but that's absolutly no Reason to use it in ANY of your OWN material.
infact, if there's a good sounding bassline, i TRY to not sound like it, at all.
but that's just personal, songwriters. I know i am not the best at songs, becasue i don't spend enough time at the tracks, adn surya's 100% correct, these kids don't put the time into it, and the use of presets is a way to cut corner's.
maybe it's not the presets, but the lack of effort. using presets isn't a sign of lack of talent, or good sound, but a lack of effort. They throw a quick composition together, quick preset, and then make it a full song, without soul, i.e. without a care, as to the sound of it, because it's sounds good enough at first listen.
their's a lot of subtleness in music, and art in general, and i have just soon figured this out. most people don't recognize this, because they figure techno is like a rock band, take a week off, make an album. but it's not like Nirvana.
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28-02-2005 14:04 |
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Yawn
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Registration Date: 25-01-2005
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| quote: |
| [i] history repeats in cycles
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Most definitely mate, in the UK at the moment there is this resurgence of the British 'band' with all these new up and coming bands basically imitating classic rock bands of the past like the Clash & the rolling stones, in a contemporary style. The problem is though is that they're crap, and if they had came out at the same time as their predecessors then they would have been shunned as a cheap imitation & wouldn't have made it. But beacause its a flava that people haven't heard for a while or, for young people, never heard before then its poularity will rise. and the same will happen with drum & bass and we might all get out of this jump up rut & back in to tha darkside! 
As for electronic music in general I think it will go stale in the end, might take a long time, but eventually there wont be anything we can do with genres as we know them. unless someone creates a new synthesiser that creates a completely new sound never before heard then electronic music may die out and go back to the undeground where only us oldies of the future will listen to it. (like our grandparents today - how often do you hear their favourite 78 on the radio?). As the youth of tomorrow grow up their music tastes will be different to ours and their music scene will be completely different & as ultradark says it may well be hippy rock - who knows?
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28-02-2005 14:11 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
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you knwo what killed the grunge era, the pinicle of underground hardcore rock?
INDUSTRIAL.
hybrid of techno and rock.
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28-02-2005 14:18 |
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Yawn
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you know wot? I think you might just be right!!!
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28-02-2005 14:20 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
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History does not repeat itself.
but historic events DO!
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28-02-2005 14:28 |
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dirk
Steppa
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| quote: |
| you knwo what killed the grunge era, the pinicle of underground hardcore rock? |
People finaly realized that it was a lot of crapp !!! .
I hate grunge Dirk .
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28-02-2005 16:48 |
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dirk
Steppa
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| quote: |
| 95% of the soundquality has to do with the musician not with what they use !!! |
This also means that if you use software like reason/FL/ect... ( what sound like bad mp3 files to me ) The max soundquality you can get is 95% of what is possible .
Now if you are a consumer that is realy good and you don't need any better .
But if you have a profesional mindset you will not feel satisfied if you don't reach 100% soundquality .
That's why real profesional people don't use these programs as soundsource but only as compositional tool .
So the choice is clear to me : Do you want to stay consumer or do you want to be profesional .
Greetings Dirk .
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28-02-2005 17:08 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
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28-02-2005 17:11 |
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Yawn
Sponsor
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| quote: |
Originally posted by dirk
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| you knwo what killed the grunge era, the pinicle of underground hardcore rock? |
People finaly realized that it was a lot of crapp !!! .
I hate grunge Dirk . |
depends on what you class as grunge....sonic youth, alice in chains & the violent femmes are amazing bands
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28-02-2005 17:17 |
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dirk
Steppa
Registration Date: 14-11-2004
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| quote: |
| i want to practice. |
I will give you the best advise I can give , to anyone for that matter .
And I apologize for being patronizing .
Greetings Dirk .
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28-02-2005 17:17 |
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dirk
Steppa
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| quote: |
| depends on what you class as grunge....sonic youth, alice in chains & the violent femmes are amazing bands |
Oh yes I do mean those bands , thank god you didn't mention pearl jam , cause that realy realy sucked ! But hey this is only my opinion do you realy care for that . 
I hate grunge Dirk .
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28-02-2005 17:23 |
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