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dirk
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Articles written by Bob Katz about digital and analoge audio . And learn why some software is verry expensive and some verry cheap .
Digital Domain
Greetings dirk .
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24-01-2005 07:46 |
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stino 
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thanks dirk
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www.myspace.com/circlelogicband
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24-01-2005 12:28 |
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Halph-Price
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is it even talking about software, it's talking about digital mixers and analog mixers.
tubes have a better sound, it's warm and soft. nuff said. 
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24-01-2005 13:08 |
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Surya
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No, it's not about software, as far as I could tell from a first look...
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"In dnb you should make people jump not swim"
- Pieter Frenssen 2004
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24-01-2005 13:31 |
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Halph-Price
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it does make a good point about the benfiets of using both analog and digital, although.
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24-01-2005 14:41 |
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dirk
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You just can't expect that a 300 euro costing software package has the same quality as the "real" stuf .
Don't be so naive !!! If software developers realy think they got a product that is "state of the art" , they will charge accordingly .
Greetings Dirk .
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24-01-2005 19:30 |
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tetsuo
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| quote: |
Originally posted by dirk
You just can't expect that a 300 euro costing software package has the same quality as the "real" stuf .
Don't be so naive !!! If software developers realy think they got a product that is "state of the art" , they will charge accordingly .
Greetings Dirk . |
I don't think that is a cost worries....The only thing is that with soft they "emulate" sound and effects and stuff, which is a lot less expansive than actually building the shit......I've said it i another thread and will repeat it here: No matters how your soft is good, the main thing is the A/D converter that is in your soundcard, and trust me my friend, if u spend 800 euros on a good sound card, your sound will be as good as it came from hardware ( IMO of course.....), just need to check a lot more thing that if you were working with hardware, but it's about to equal it now (the article is from 2000 i suppose....)
Love, peace, sex and dnb
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24-01-2005 19:51 |
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dirk
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| quote: |
| I don't think that is a cost worries....The only thing is that with soft they "emulate" sound and effects and stuff, which is a lot less expansive than actually building the shit......I've said it i another thread and will repeat it here: No matters how your soft is good, the main thing is the A/D converter that is in your soundcard, and trust me my friend, if u spend 800 euros on a good sound card, your sound will be as good as it came from hardware ( IMO of course.....), just need to check a lot more thing that if you were working with hardware, but it's about to equal it now (the article is from 2000 i suppose....) |
You must also read the articles about dither , jitter and the other ones .
Greetings dirk .
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24-01-2005 20:03 |
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peet
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| quote: |
Originally posted by tetsuo
| quote: |
Originally posted by dirk
You just can't expect that a 300 euro costing software package has the same quality as the "real" stuf .
Don't be so naive !!! If software developers realy think they got a product that is "state of the art" , they will charge accordingly .
Greetings Dirk . |
I don't think that is a cost worries....The only thing is that with soft they "emulate" sound and effects and stuff, which is a lot less expansive than actually building the shit......I've said it i another thread and will repeat it here: No matters how your soft is good, the main thing is the A/D converter that is in your soundcard, and trust me my friend, if u spend 800 euros on a good sound card, your sound will be as good as it came from hardware ( IMO of course.....), just need to check a lot more thing that if you were working with hardware, but it's about to equal it now (the article is from 2000 i suppose....)
Love, peace, sex and dnb
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yeh ofcourse youre fully right, but why bother getting a good A/D convertor if you're working 100% in software? the only output you'll need is a cd-burner right? and usually thats just audio files instead of audio tracks. on the latter you'll need a good A/D in your cd burner tho right?
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24-01-2005 20:43 |
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tetsuo
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Didn't find them...
Thing is, I think it's a lot more hassle to get real good sound with softw than with hardw because the hard is settle that way ( pure analog), and i'm just speaking about the basic sound source. In hard, because of the composent, signal is not that precise because of "cheaps transistors" that can't hold a straight signal.....And the result is that there is more warmth to the sound due to this little distortion. Once again, with a good soundcard with seperates outputs and a good mix table, you'll nearlly reach the same result if you use a soft that emulate analog output ( tubes and stuff...)
Imho of course, learn every day
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24-01-2005 20:46 |
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tetsuo
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| quote: |
Originally posted by peet
yeh ofcourse youre fully right, but why bother getting a good A/D convertor if you're working 100% in software? the only output you'll need is a cd-burner right? and usually thats just audio files instead of audio tracks. on the latter you'll need a good A/D in your cd burner tho right? |
I m not sure, but even if you're working with soft, you already works with a A/D conv, which is in you'sound card, unless you got analog speakers....
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24-01-2005 20:49 |
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dirk
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I'll try to explain ( same numbers as in website )
If you divide a number by 2 eg. 1.51 you get 0.775 . You have gained a extra decimal place ! Bad digital audio ignores this and good digital audio not .
Everytime you cange a signal , the system makes multiple calculations . If you ignore roundup errors ( Bad digital audio ) these can become verry significant . This has nothing to do with AD/DA-convertors .
Greetings Dirk .
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24-01-2005 23:03 |
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Halph-Price
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for vocal or instrumental recordings, they do suggest getting a ... band strip?, or whatever, basicly a tube, that's what makes the differenace. the little lightbulbs. and Audio cards don't have them. i am not even sure what the hell a tube is frankly. but it warms the sound accordingly.
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23-02-2005 18:58 |
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Daemon79
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What's the date of the artiicle?
I see something like "revised and updated from an editorial counterpoint which appeared in Pro Sound News, January 1997." But a lot has changed in the digital world since that date.
I mean you can get a 24/96 soundcard for less than ¤100 these days.
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23-02-2005 21:14 |
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dirk
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It is an old article but I think it is still very informative .
Digial is digital and when its digital you can't loose signals is a completely wrong assumption .
I will try to explain :
Take 5 divide it by 2 than multiply the result by 2 and in the perfect world you get 5 as result . (5/2)*2=5
But if you do the same calculation on a digital system things can go wrong . The same calculation can have 4 as result if you forget the 0.5
Multipling two 16 bit numbers can result in 32 bit numbers or more . ( Distortion is multipling with the same signal and than adding it back )
So good digital audio should have high bit depth and that costs computer power .
Software designers have the choice between soundquality and amount of gadgeds they put in . Or in other words , they are designing mostly for professionals or for consumers .
In my view software like reason or fruittyloops is designed for consumers and if you use these kinds of software as soundsource for your productions you lack professional attitude .
These software packets are ofcause extremely good compositional tools and thats how The Prodigy for instance uses it .
Greetings Dirk .
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24-02-2005 19:42 |
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Halph-Price
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actualy the generators in fruity work better than the VST's. they are renderd in a high quality, and sound completely differnet than, much better, than the original sound you're playing with. it saves memory, and still sounds great.
but the article talks about a/d converter or whatever, and thats only for recording, because soundcards lose information. so you get a tube pre-amp, or whatever, and you've got it fixed up. that's the gist of it. not even about the quality of digital shtuff.
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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Halph-Price: 25-02-2005 04:15.
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25-02-2005 03:44 |
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dirk
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| quote: |
| actualy the generators in fruity work better than the VST's. they are renderd in a high quality, and sound completely differnet than, much better, than the original sound you're playing with. it saves memory, and still sounds great. |
Does this mean that fruityloops sound better than the real thing ? Cause I hear only utter crapp comming from FL and it sounds like bad mp3 files to me . But I have only FL3 does this sound the same as FL5 ?
This was my opinion of these programs so far but I will check your claim and let you know what I think after the test .
Maybe you will find this interesting reading .Paul Frindle from Sony Oxford .
Greetings Dirk .
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25-02-2005 05:30 |
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thechronic
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The article dates from 1996 and is about the fact that project studios at the time were typically built around cheap 8-track ADATs or DA-88 recorders with Yamaha digital desks.
Still the things he points out are completely true up to this date.
Good digital gear costs a fortune. Studios spend ¤40000 on high end digital Protools HD converters and then they end up spending ¤1500 more on a digital master clock because they are not satisfied with the quality. Why? They are used to listening to analog, and are striving to match the quality of analog.
A simple high quality stereo converter such as the Apogee Rosetta 200 costs nearly ¤2000, but you can safely say that that sounds as good as analog and has a better signal to noise ratio.
But a 24-bit / 96kHz soundcard for less than ¤100? Will probably sound horrible and edgy compared to analog, as pointed out in the article:
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| Edgy sound can be caused by many factors: sharp filters, poor conversion technology, low resolution (short wordlength), poor analog stages, jitter, improper dither, clock leakage in analog stages due to bad circuit board design and many others. |
Even in 2005 a cheap soundcard will suffer from these problems, the manufacturers are not aiming for sound quality but for a target price.
The article is dated in the way that he suggests going back to analog recorders. I wouldn't suggest that anymore today, but I would suggest in investing in high quality digital converters. If you want to buy a new sound card, spend some money on it, your music depends on it!
You don't need to spend ¤2000 on a sound card ofcourse, but check out the lower end of the professional range (such as RME Digi96/8 PAD) and definitely get away from Audigy's and on-board sound cards!
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25-02-2005 09:22 |
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