daze_DND 
MYSTIC
Registration Date: 01-11-2004
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| quote: |
Originally posted by ultradark
but the sequencer is small and not so easy to work with . |
: do you really think reason's sequencer is hard to work with? i find it to be very eazy stuff....certainly for someone starting out. much eazier to get something going than other sequencers (logic/cubase/whatever). it ' s bit to limited imo, that's why i rewire and sequence in cubase sx(and for the better vst-fx/instruments too of course).
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15-04-2005 12:00 |
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thechronic
admin
Registration Date: 01-11-2002
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Some great philosophical thinking here by halph and ultradark 
I have never considered that rewiring Reason could be looked at as using it as a plugin in a bigger sequencer. That's a great way for people to step up their skills once they've outgrown Reason, they can start in a more advanced environment without having to learn everything from scratch and can fall back on the stuff in Reason they are used to work with. And also the cash they invested in Reason is not thrown away either.
And ultradark I guess you are completely right about the lack of vst support in Reason, that must be it!!
Well done my children, learned something today 
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15-04-2005 12:27 |
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cynik
Cp6uja
Registration Date: 15-03-2005
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| quote: |
Originally posted by ultradark
but then, if reason would support vst, what would gradually become be the most used thing in reason? seqencer! because there is so many vst's that gradually people would stop using reason devices and use vst's instead, and then gradually people would realize they use just sequencer and would think there are bigger and easier to work with sequencers like cubase sx for example, and then they would switch to other sequencer and that means --- the death of reason.
seeing reason as 1 complete package is propellerhead's excuse to prevent that. |
couildnt dissagree with ya more. vst this, vst that.
and the excuse??
thats just a negative way of thinking. I like to believe there are ppl (proppelerhead s.) who actualy upgrade their software cos they see it better in future. now reason has its flaws, but then again EVERYTHING has flaws.
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15-04-2005 13:15 |
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tetsuo
Guiness factory
Registration Date: 26-12-2004
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Imo, Reason is just a soft for people who wants to start making music on their computers, electo or not, and it got everything it needs for it ( on an amatuer level of course concerning the sound quality etc).
But once you get around it, it's more complex than it looks ( as music in general). I mean, once you get around the only two synth and the automation, you can make your own "reece like sound", drum part and effect...Once you get used to it, sound quality increase by the addiction of effects and eq, and in a way that beginners won't be afraid by, not like most of music soft like cubase and so on.
The new verson of reason icrease in sound quality and in versality ( maybe not correct....) because of the combinator and the mastering suite combo, and that's a good thing compare to the 2.5 version!
I use the main sequencer instead of the matrix unit, save some cpu usage
and way easier to work with, once you know how to use it!
Propeller developer start using the rewire protocol with rebirth and won't stop using it in my opinion, cause it's a wicked way to control multiple soft at once via midi, and that's their own baby ( not sure about that....)
Didn't bring much, but there it is.
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Yesterday' s futur is today!! 
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19-04-2005 21:25 |
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@1$-)
unregistered
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Halph-Price
| quote: |
Originally posted by MUNKI C
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Originally posted by cynik
I agree with ya about the programing- introduction but personally think the future is with Reason. Not that Im convinced or blindly believing in it, maybe I'm dead wrong 
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i wouldnt say its the future, to be honest i think ableton live is making the biggest inroads,but whatever gets the job done wether its new or old is what counts, but ableton offers a bit more flexibility than most and is easy to use. gimme vsti and fx support, as well as decent quality audio and the ability to multitrack record and reason would destroy the competition, but like i said i cant see it as it the cpu usage would go through the roof. |
again, Albeton does not do any sound synthesist, which is what Reason is Emulating, Analong Synthesis!
not some DO IT ALL mix station.
just do all synth's all.
that;s why they have the rewire protocal.
the sequencing it's emulating in reason is that matrix thing. the ohter sequencer is for midi support, use your keyboard to use reason.
it's not a high class production SUITE, it's just analog modelling!!!!! it's like a BIG COMPLEX VST! what don't ya get? it's so complex that they have a diverse protocal for it, ReWire!!!
seeeee.
think of it as one of the best vst's you can get for your money.
better than Vanguard, THERE I SAID IT! i know it's harsh, but it's out there,now.... better than vanguard... |
yeh....but vanguard sounds soooo much better tha reason 
the synths in reason suck ass, their easy to use but again the audio quality is shit, vsti sound better cause their designed to do one thing.
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19-04-2005 21:54 |
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saphir
Wicked Producer
Registration Date: 15-11-2002
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| quote: |
Originally posted by MUNKI C
| quote: |
Originally posted by Halph-Price
| quote: |
Originally posted by MUNKI C
| quote: |
Originally posted by cynik
I agree with ya about the programing- introduction but personally think the future is with Reason. Not that Im convinced or blindly believing in it, maybe I'm dead wrong
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i wouldnt say its the future, to be honest i think ableton live is making the biggest inroads,but whatever gets the job done wether its new or old is what counts, but ableton offers a bit more flexibility than most and is easy to use. gimme vsti and fx support, as well as decent quality audio and the ability to multitrack record and reason would destroy the competition, but like i said i cant see it as it the cpu usage would go through the roof. |
again, Albeton does not do any sound synthesist, which is what Reason is Emulating, Analong Synthesis!
not some DO IT ALL mix station.
just do all synth's all.
that;s why they have the rewire protocal.
the sequencing it's emulating in reason is that matrix thing. the ohter sequencer is for midi support, use your keyboard to use reason.
it's not a high class production SUITE, it's just analog modelling!!!!! it's like a BIG COMPLEX VST! what don't ya get? it's so complex that they have a diverse protocal for it, ReWire!!!
seeeee.
think of it as one of the best vst's you can get for your money.
better than Vanguard, THERE I SAID IT! i know it's harsh, but it's out there,now.... better than vanguard... |
yeh....but vanguard sounds soooo much better tha reason
the synths in reason suck ass, their easy to use but again the audio quality is shit, vsti sound better cause their designed to do one thing. |
sorry man, but i don't agree.
vanguard doesn't sound better. even worse, vanguard is a mighty tool, but one of the lesser soundwise. (one of the better is imo reactor / z3ta+)
you get the impression cuz the engine of the vsti hosts are better than reason, but when you rewire...what's the point then saying that the synths sound crap? (i rewire to sonar for instance)
the synths in reason are one of the most powerfull i saw/heard. esp. the maelstrom. ok i admit, you don't get a proper sound instantly but i hammer on it once again... when using reason use the "TAB" button, start to route & experiment with that, you'll soon get a gnarly fat synth. or a beautifull/experimental pad, whatever. and especially now with the combinator...awesome...
anyway, this is another endless discussion about the sound/and reason
whatever floats your boat i guess.
just my experience. to each it's own i guess.
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This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by saphir: 20-04-2005 15:01.
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20-04-2005 14:58 |
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cynik
Cp6uja
Registration Date: 15-03-2005
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| quote: |
Originally posted by saphir
the synths in reason are one of the most powerfull i saw/heard. esp. the maelstrom. ok i admit, you don't get a proper sound instantly but i hammer on it once again... when using reason use the "TAB" button, start to route & experiment with that, you'll soon get a gnarly fat synth. or a beautifull/experimental pad, whatever. and especially now with the combinator...awesome...
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one more thing.. the fact is the synth is powerful (maelstrom), that is, emulates all the knobs and buttons as the real ones.
you can really start making sounds from the "init patch" and it can sound awesome. no use of premade patches required!!! just some basic sound engeneering knowlege.
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20-04-2005 16:22 |
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@1$-)
unregistered
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totally agree about reactor and vangaurd,
dont get me wrong ilike reason, i just think the synths are crap. theres not enough flexibility compared to reaktor, absynth, vanguard, and z3ta, or even the fm7! but the sample players are good, and redrum is cool as well. if they inlcuded vsti support id even go out and buy a copy.
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21-04-2005 21:23 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
Posts: 6,160
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| quote: |
Originally posted by MUNKI C
| quote: |
Originally posted by Halph-Price
| quote: |
Originally posted by MUNKI C
| quote: |
Originally posted by cynik
I agree with ya about the programing- introduction but personally think the future is with Reason. Not that Im convinced or blindly believing in it, maybe I'm dead wrong
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i wouldnt say its the future, to be honest i think ableton live is making the biggest inroads,but whatever gets the job done wether its new or old is what counts, but ableton offers a bit more flexibility than most and is easy to use. gimme vsti and fx support, as well as decent quality audio and the ability to multitrack record and reason would destroy the competition, but like i said i cant see it as it the cpu usage would go through the roof. |
again, Albeton does not do any sound synthesist, which is what Reason is Emulating, Analong Synthesis!
not some DO IT ALL mix station.
just do all synth's all.
that;s why they have the rewire protocal.
the sequencing it's emulating in reason is that matrix thing. the ohter sequencer is for midi support, use your keyboard to use reason.
it's not a high class production SUITE, it's just analog modelling!!!!! it's like a BIG COMPLEX VST! what don't ya get? it's so complex that they have a diverse protocal for it, ReWire!!!
seeeee.
think of it as one of the best vst's you can get for your money.
better than Vanguard, THERE I SAID IT! i know it's harsh, but it's out there,now.... better than vanguard... |
yeh....but vanguard sounds soooo much better tha reason
the synths in reason suck ass, their easy to use but again the audio quality is shit, vsti sound better cause their designed to do one thing. |
dude, the audio in Reason is High Quality, it's just figuring out how to get the synth's to work the right way. and the big bad ass detune is a delicate thing that vangaurd simplifies down to a single knob and select your Osc shape. it's taking 6 osc and detuing them in unison, and making there overall volume a bit quieter. you can do the same thing in reason, just it's requires a bit of detailed tuning.
but they havn't been hurting for not having vst support yet though!
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21-04-2005 22:04 |
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@1$-)
unregistered
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the audio in reason sucks,
its not high quality thats why you rewire, the plug ins are complete shit when you compare them to things like psp, waves and the grm tools.
dont kidd yourself man, as a sequencer its easy to learn and reasonably flexible, but your never gonna get a pro sound using JUST reason,
maybe if your running individual channels out to a hardware desk with a bunch of top end hardware fx, but on its own.....your dreaming.
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21-04-2005 23:03 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
Posts: 6,160
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yea, you export them as wav and there good quality.
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22-04-2005 00:27 |
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cynik
Cp6uja
Registration Date: 15-03-2005
Posts: 5,646
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Halph-Price
| quote: |
Originally posted by MUNKI C
| quote: |
Originally posted by Halph-Price
| quote: |
Originally posted by MUNKI C
| quote: |
Originally posted by cynik
I agree with ya about the programing- introduction but personally think the future is with Reason. Not that Im convinced or blindly believing in it, maybe I'm dead wrong
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i wouldnt say its the future, to be honest i think ableton live is making the biggest inroads,but whatever gets the job done wether its new or old is what counts, but ableton offers a bit more flexibility than most and is easy to use. gimme vsti and fx support, as well as decent quality audio and the ability to multitrack record and reason would destroy the competition, but like i said i cant see it as it the cpu usage would go through the roof. |
again, Albeton does not do any sound synthesist, which is what Reason is Emulating, Analong Synthesis!
not some DO IT ALL mix station.
just do all synth's all.
that;s why they have the rewire protocal.
the sequencing it's emulating in reason is that matrix thing. the ohter sequencer is for midi support, use your keyboard to use reason.
it's not a high class production SUITE, it's just analog modelling!!!!! it's like a BIG COMPLEX VST! what don't ya get? it's so complex that they have a diverse protocal for it, ReWire!!!
seeeee.
think of it as one of the best vst's you can get for your money.
better than Vanguard, THERE I SAID IT! i know it's harsh, but it's out there,now.... better than vanguard... |
yeh....but vanguard sounds soooo much better tha reason
the synths in reason suck ass, their easy to use but again the audio quality is shit, vsti sound better cause their designed to do one thing. |
dude, the audio in Reason is High Quality, it's just figuring out how to get the synth's to work the right way. and the big bad ass detune is a delicate thing that vangaurd simplifies down to a single knob and select your Osc shape. it's taking 6 osc and detuing them in unison, and making there overall volume a bit quieter. you can do the same thing in reason, just it's requires a bit of detailed tuning.
but they havn't been hurting for not having vst support yet though! |
so you've came to a conclusion that with Rsn you actually can do everything but with hard work
note the difference between earlier posts by people stating that it just "looks good", "a good beginners suite", but "sounds like shit" etc.
this is some dissagreeing. imo u are completely right halph-price
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22-04-2005 10:15 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
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well, i am not the one that says it's high-quality, i am just relaying what i heard STRAIGHT from fucking Crystal Method, who uses reason, and uses the synth's formost of there leads.
you may have ntoiced this band sells music, for a living. they may, or may not, know a little about the program in which they make money off of, because of it's high-quality.
hmmm, maybe teh shitty sounds reason makes is actualy there own fault? hmmmmm. maybe if they had halph a clue about sound synthesis, they would know how to use it.
http://www.m-audio.com/images/global/videos/CMnamm2.mov for it from their mouth. there not the greatest public speakers though.
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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Halph-Price: 23-04-2005 16:03.
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23-04-2005 16:03 |
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@1$-)
unregistered
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yeh but i doubt crystal method use just reason.....which is kind of my point, in fact i know they dont as they use vocals (last time i checked u cant record with reason), so they might use it as their sequncer but i gaurentee as their signed to a major label that its wired through through some very expensive hardware.
if you use reason by itself its not going to sound pro....a prime example of this is are the demos you get with it, good programming but they SOUND crap, its not pro
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23-04-2005 17:28 |
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Surya
The Robot
Registration Date: 04-11-2002
Posts: 11,238
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| quote: |
Originally posted by MUNKI C
yeh but i doubt crystal method use just reason.....which is kind of my point, in fact i know they dont as they use vocals (last time i checked u cant record with reason), so they might use it as their sequncer but i gaurentee as their signed to a major label that its wired through through some very expensive hardware.
if you use reason by itself its not going to sound pro....a prime example of this is are the demos you get with it, good programming but they SOUND crap, its not pro |
My tracks are always 100% Reason too, but I work hard to make them sound as good as possible.
For Tragic Error we did everything in Reason too... except the mastering. Bounced everything to 24bit/96k wavs and ran them thru some unaffordable hardware. Sounds MUCH better 
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- Pieter Frenssen 2004
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23-04-2005 20:47 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
Posts: 6,160
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| quote: |
Originally posted by MUNKI C
yeh but i doubt crystal method use just reason.....which is kind of my point, in fact i know they dont as they use vocals (last time i checked u cant record with reason), so they might use it as their sequncer but i gaurentee as their signed to a major label that its wired through through some very expensive hardware.
if you use reason by itself its not going to sound pro....a prime example of this is are the demos you get with it, good programming but they SOUND crap, its not pro |
yea, that goes for everything. use reason like a instrument. it still has good quality sound. not AMAZING, or like, BETTER THAN ANYTHING EVER.
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24-04-2005 09:05 |
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Surya
The Robot
Registration Date: 04-11-2002
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28-04-2005 09:49 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
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UltraDArk, you’d think it was some sort of complex program they were releasing, not a simple sound DSP program? Ya? Sometimes the slight bugs, are an issue of something else entirely. You try programming complex programs, a DSP one at that, before you knock a program as complex as this. It’s not just a simple vst, it now also has to hook-up and be compatible with hardware, which is brags it does instantly, so that must be quite a big programming feat there.
Honestly beyond the mastering effects, they just have a combinator and hardware hook-up in this new version, you think it took them this long to release that because there lazy and truly don't know what there doing? You name that last piece of software you released, or any software, that was thoroughly beta-tested, and didn't have a any patch released, because there was no other problems.
You can only beta test for so long, there’s release dates, software programming doesn’t they have the leisure of having your entire life to perfect every little bit of software. It’s like writing a newspaper, there’s still typos in it. And in programming, even one typo can become a major error but can be missed because of the sheer complexity of the entire program. It’s not until you have a couple THOUSAND people use the program that even a few of them find it, let a lone even a few hundred beta-testers.
also todaze_DND, saying there just minor bugs, read the last few, they talk about performance issues. That could be the CPU gobbling that was talked about before.
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16) Performance problems
Several performance and CPU usage issues have been found. We continue to investigate all issues, but we have confirmed a problem with scrolling as well as bugs in the MClass Equalizer, the DDL-1 delay and the Subtractor's noise generator, which could all cause occasional high loads on the CPU. |
i think they tried to hide that one.
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This post has been edited 4 time(s), it was last edited by Halph-Price: 30-04-2005 17:22.
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30-04-2005 17:19 |
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