 chopping and slicing+EQ |
wicked_wayz 
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Registration Date: 19-03-2004
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Yups,
just wondering how you people sliced your breaks...meaning, how accurate: 1/16, 1/8? I just cut every hit I can see, but then you sometimes loose the feel of the break (quase it is totally quantised...?). So, keep drumrolls intact? Just make sure the main kick and snare fit (are quantized), and forget the rest?
Btw: anyone knows some standard rules on frequency ranges for a snare, kick...?
Just fishing for ideas and suggestions here, not to happy about my own approach 
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10-06-2004 11:05 |
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rorschach
Cool Steppa
Registration Date: 24-08-2003
Posts: 110
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I'm not a reference at all, but this is what i do most of the time: take a break, cut it precisely, quantize main kicks and snares to 1/16, gate.
I'm too lazy to eq every single hit so i eq the whole thing..
This should work, but imo you need *lots* of experience and a good ear to make it work, because i just don't get what i want..
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10-06-2004 11:39 |
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Surya
The Robot
Registration Date: 04-11-2002
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I cut every hit I HEAR, not see 
I do it as acurate as possible.
But in fact the only loops I cut are amens and tramens, and sometimes a samurai (gotta love that ride!), I rarely use others.
Don't think there are standards for frequencies for snares and kicks. Kicks are usually boosted slightly under 100 Hz (90 or 80), snares should punch, so they should have some low-mid, and they should sound clear, so enough brilliance (+10 kHz) but don't overdo that, coz its tiring for the ears...
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"In dnb you should make people jump not swim"
- Pieter Frenssen 2004
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10-06-2004 11:43 |
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thechronic
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Registration Date: 01-11-2002
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| quote: |
Originally posted by wicked_wayz
just wondering how you people sliced your breaks...meaning, how accurate: 1/16, 1/8? I just cut every hit I can see, but then you sometimes loose the feel of the break (quase it is totally quantised...?). So, keep drumrolls intact? Just make sure the main kick and snare fit (are quantized), and forget the rest? |
When you want to cut up a live drummed loop you really have to do it by hand or use a tool like Recycle (haven't used it myself but heard from several people that it works well).
To do it by hand:
Load up the loop in an audio editor such as Wavelab, Sound Forge, Nero Wave Editor or some freeware tool like audacity, Encounter or Soliton.
Listen to the loop and make rough indications of the points where you want to make your cuts. Then zoom in progressively and refine the cut points. Repeat this until you are zoomed in up to sample level. Try to make your cuts at zero-crossings ie the point where the waveform crosses the middle - either going from negative to positive or the other way round, this will eliminate any clicks at the beginning or end of the sample.
Then save every part giving it a descriptive name (kick, hihat, kick + hihat, snare + hihat, kick + crash, kick + snare + hh etc) and load it in your sampler. Now you can make new loops and do whatever you like - quantizing, adding swing etc.
When you make new loops and you experience some gaps in the audio because some samples are cut too short, a good trick is to enable reverse playback after the sample ends. Some samplers support this, it's often called 'one shot + reverse' or similar. You have to make mute groups too (like you would with a open/closed hihat line) so the reversed sample stops when a new one starts playing.
Another thing to keep in mind is not to layer sounds coming from the same loop - this will inevitably cause awful phasing artifacts and loss of sound quality. Just make a new loop in one track!!
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10-06-2004 13:00 |
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thechronic
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| quote: |
Originally posted by wicked_wayz
anyone knows some standard rules on frequency ranges for a snare, kick...? |
Yes, there are none
Every kick or snare drum sounds different because they resonate at different frequencies.
Also the way a drum kit is recorded has a huge impact on the way you need to eq it. You might think that a kick drum fi always needs a boost in the low end, but sometimes you just need to do the opposite, if it has eg been recorded using a PZM microphone inside the bass drum, there is too much low end present.
Just use your ears!!
Some basic rules on eqing in general:
- it's better to cut out annoying frequencies instead of boosting the good ones
- never EQ while listening to the element in solo, always play the whole mix
- don't eq anything when your song is not finished yet, leave it for the end, when you start mixing and adding effects.
- do your eq's using plugins, instead of directly on the sound file. It's a bad thing to apply EQ twice or more, and when you use a plugin you can easily bypass it to see if the EQ really helps in the mix.
- analog eq sounds better than digital eq 
If you are serious about making music it wouldn't be a bad idea to invest in a decent analog stereo eq (eg the TL Audio Ivory II 5013 - cheap and excellent sounding)
- if you use software and are very keen in boosting instead of cutting, watch your meters and decrease the gain if the signal starts clipping!!
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If you find spam on the site, please hit the button and select my name. I'll personally kick it to the murky depths of hell where it belongs!
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10-06-2004 13:24 |
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wicked_wayz
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Registration Date: 19-03-2004
Posts: 194
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well that's what i call info 
anyway, I use zero-x beatslicer to cut em up, automatically saves each slice as a single .wav (it's similar to recycle). Used soundforge before, but the 'save-as' got annoying
the zero-crossings I did not know, and indeed, had some problems, especially the endings. Mostly, i applied a small fade-out, but sometimes you lose to much of the hit, and actually create gaps yourself... will try the reverse thingy
the eq: mostly kick and snare, I eq-ed before importing them, but simply cut out everything below 60Hz to make room. Later, one eq plugin on the whole break.
that TL looks jammy, dual valve...
thanks for the pointers
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10-06-2004 13:59 |
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Akura
Kletsenboem-style
Registration Date: 06-04-2003
Posts: 223
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Nice info idd TheChronic!!
I can imagine a 'cheap' eq (TL Audio Ivory II 5013) priced around 666 Euros sounds better than a software thingy
Compared to somewhat professional material this price is idd cheap... (I want to win the lottery once
).
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10-06-2004 21:02 |
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I'm checking out Devine Machine for a week now and it's defenitely worth trying! No need for REX files (i hate to store all my loops in wav and rex format), import your .wav directly in it. Lots of detailed edit possibilities and able to layer up to 8 loops. Comes with a bunch of presets as well. Can get really crazy results with it!
Cool to use as standalone as well.
http://www.devine-machine.com/
Only thing is that it's still version 1.0 so better wait a while before buying.
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by woodcarver ORKA: 11-06-2004 13:09.
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11-06-2004 13:04 |
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rorschach
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Registration Date: 24-08-2003
Posts: 110
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i read different techniques for eq'ing breaks, so i was wondering what you guys think is best:
-chop it up, take every part and eq it (+maybe some compression)
-leave as is, split into lo/mid/high, eq, rejoin and then chop (and how would you split the spectrum into 3 bands?)
would love to see some comments on this..
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02-07-2004 14:31 |
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thechronic
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| quote: |
Originally posted by rorschach
i read different techniques for eq'ing breaks, so i was wondering what you guys think is best:
-chop it up, take every part and eq it (+maybe some compression) |
It is an interesting technique to try out, and it has a lot of potential for creating original sounds, but if you don't do it well it will probably sound weird and jumpy. It is a very time consuming thing to do, and you might have to do it over a couple of times - imagine adding a new bassline and noticing that the kick samples need a different EQ - you'd have to go back and re-EQ every chopped sample!
IMO the best thing to do is to forget about the EQ in the beginning, just chop up the loop, reassemble it into a new break, and EQ the whole break in the end when the track is nearly finished. If it sounds so bad that you need to EQ from the start it would perhaps be better to chose a different loop!
This is the way that people work in recording studios, where time is limited and the end result needs to sound very good.
First everything is recorded without any EQ, compression or fx but attention is paid to the source material - the dry source audio should sound good by itself. If it doesn't they will find a solution in a way of changing instruments or microphones.
Only when the entire track is completely finished the engineer will start mixing: balancing the volume of every element, chosing the stereo placement, EQing, compressing, adding fx etc.
It is wrong to think that you can fix a bad source by EQing it. EQing is most useful to remove some parts of the frequency spectrum to make the sound fit in better with the rest of the track.
| quote: |
Originally posted by rorschach
-leave as is, split into lo/mid/high, eq, rejoin and then chop (and how would you split the spectrum into 3 bands?) |
This is really useless. Doesn't have any benefits at all for EQing. This technique is only useful for mastering compression.
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If you find spam on the site, please hit the button and select my name. I'll personally kick it to the murky depths of hell where it belongs!
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02-07-2004 15:25 |
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Rha
Member
Registration Date: 16-02-2003
Posts: 53
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Nobody on the board using Intakt? Another great release from NI.
As for the eq-ing, especially for noobies, don't eq your kick too low as it'll fuck up your bline and sub everytime. Used to have this a lot back in the days and me was like 
wtf?
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30-07-2004 23:26 |
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Surya
The Robot
Registration Date: 04-11-2002
Posts: 11,238
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Just got Intakt, but haven't tried it yet 
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"In dnb you should make people jump not swim"
- Pieter Frenssen 2004
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31-07-2004 13:14 |
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