Elections - drumnbass.be

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Poll: Elections: your votes?
Already know who	9	60.00%
Dunno yet, I'll figure it out on the spot	3	20.00%
They all suck, nobody deserves my vote, I'm gonna vote invalid	1	6.67%
I'm not 18 yet, whie!	1	6.67%
I'm not from Belgium :D	1	6.67%
They all suck, I'm gonna vote blanco	0	0.00%
I'm not 18 yet, but I would like to vote!!!	0	0.00%
Total:	15 Votes	100%

Elections

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KoFFiE KoFFiE is a male

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quote:

Originally posted by emmetje
...
speeches about STRUCTURAL solutions for matters like the immigrants problem don't work because they're unpopular. That's why everywhere in Europe where citizens are sick about "unsecurity", left parties don't have one word to say. The voters are expecting strong and/or negative words, like fear, police, violence, etc.
The reasonable speeches interest only people who already are against VB. (imo).
Then what can we do against VB & staff ?
Knownothing

This is completely true imho - the only thing we can is let them try - and show the people that the VB is not the answer. They will lose a lot of votes after their first term - simply cause they have absolutely 0 experience in a governing - and they don't have any sollutions - except for very short-sighted which will result in even more problems. Yes this will be a very hard period - but we can't avoid this anymore. Sad thing Frown

I also don't believe that everyone who votes for the VB does this cause of the fact that they are racist - I don't believe that 1.000.000+ people in flanders are racist.
These are protest votes, for people who don't like it the VB is attacked by everyone - even in cases that are completely false - if you check out the story of "De Morgen" about the VB guy who supposedly beat up his wife in the middle of the street... What they failed to tell was that there was a divorse in progress - and that he got the "hoederecht" of the children - while his wife had a restraining order so she was not allowed to come near the children or the man. Fact is - that the man beat up the wife - but only after she attacked him with tear-gas in presence of the children.
This is imho the worst case example of publicity for the VB - when it is attacked by (extreme) left media - like De Morgen (or Humo) - and they are proven wrong. People get fed up with these kind of things - and I don't understand that these media don't understand that they are actually helping them - exactly the opposite of what they intend to do.
Most of the time - they don't need to convince their readers - who are most of the time already left-oriented.

The big problem is that the media tries to make the VB completely black - while it has good points - and the people see that. Yes it has very bad points too - and the media in belgium - which is left-oriented - stresses these bad points - and most of the time ignore their points where they are actually right. Average people get bored, uninterested or irritated with this in general - and suddenly in an open debat the VB says - yeah but this - this, this and this - all their "better" points - and suddenly these people see something new - and say - oh well - the rest won't be so bad either - and start sympathising with the VB - and eventually vote for them. The way back to their original party is very hard once they voted for the VB - simply cause the media and all the other parties are attacking the party they once voted for - which isolates them - and they feel like they are attacked themselfs.

The way it should have been done is like they did in germany. They allowed them to participate in the governement - and since then - they are losing terrain constantly.

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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by KoFFiE: 15-06-2004 12:20.

15-06-2004 11:19

basslicious basslicious is a female

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yeah , or like in Oostenrijk , Heiders party only obtained 6 procent this weekend for the european elections , while a few years ago it was something like 25 Shocked

i dunno , could be worth a try to let them try it , but am afraid that belgium woul dbecome a very unpleasant country to live in for the coming years and i really don't wanna spend my last few youthyears being pissed off by het blok becoz they might start acting stupid like making weed a harddrug , police everywhere etc ... Roll Eyes

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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by basslicious: 15-06-2004 11:53.

15-06-2004 11:53

Surya

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I don't think so.

In order to pass laws and stuff, you need the votes of 2/3rds of the govenment. And I don't think VB will ever get such a share if they ever get in the govenment. They WILL have to rule with other parties, and those won't go easy on them. A bit like Agalev was obstucted in a lot of ways when they tried to pass laws.. And the public puniched Agalev for that... So I don't think VB will be able to change a lot, and I do think the voters will punich them for it...

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- Pieter Frenssen 2004

15-06-2004 11:57

poesjka poesjka is a female

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maybe you guys are right.
Haider, Pim Fortuyn lijst... they've been tryin' and failin'.

another (better ?) solution is the Sarkozy way (fr) : why not introduce psychology in politics ? i hate the guy but i've been really surprised by his new methods.
VB uses fear : fear of unemployment, fear of unsecurity, fear of strangers, fear of whatever. Then you'd prolly better listen to the ppl's fear than deny it. They're afraid ? then reassure them. listen to them. talk to them. They vote for VB to bring us a message ? show that you've undrestood them. show that you're conscious of the prob.
Until now "traditional moderate" parties have only been denying all this.

we can't deny racism and fear. politics nowadays is just a question of communication.
no ?

quote:

Originally posted by basslicious
they might start acting stupid like making weed a harddrug

let's find a solution before this happens !!!

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Poesjka

31/03 Café Détour @ Lille (FR)
17/05 www.jungletrain.net Motronicism live 17h-19h
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15-06-2004 12:49

Emblem-X Emblem-X is a male

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Registration Date: 10-11-2002
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quote:

Originally posted by emmetje
maybe you guys are right.
Haider, Pim Fortuyn lijst... they've been tryin' and failin'.

another (better ?) solution is the Sarkozy way (fr) : why not introduce psychology in politics ? i hate the guy but i've been really surprised by his new methods.
VB uses fear : fear of unemployment, fear of unsecurity, fear of strangers, fear of whatever. Then you'd prolly better listen to the ppl's fear than deny it. They're afraid ? then reassure them. listen to them. talk to them. They vote for VB to bring us a message ? show that you've undrestood them. show that you're conscious of the prob.
Until now "traditional moderate" parties have only been denying all this.

we can't deny racism and fear. politics nowadays is just a question of communication.
no ?

ehw damn itelligent post Big Grin

what's that 'Sarkozy way'? got any links on that? looks interesting to me!

cheerz

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15-06-2004 13:18

basslicious basslicious is a female

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its indeed a better solution for the left parties to listen to the publics fears rather than deny them ... coz that gives the public the impression that the politicians don't listen/care for them ,
that's also why het blok got so many votes , becoz they really go and familiarise with their voters and put a lot of time in that ;.... "toog politiek" like they call it (bar politics seems a wrong translation Big Grin

)

so instead of driving around on bycicles/buses for promotion , the left parties should defo consider to do this .... Bigup

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Give it a try , don't be shy
Well you know you might like it
Never been to keen a timekeeper
But i'm a pure new pleasure seeker

15-06-2004 13:25

wicked_wayz wicked_wayz is a male

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Rob 'klop' still got 6947 personal votes.... Shocked

says enough about the average inteligence here...

15-06-2004 16:50

Surya

The Robot

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Jeez! How can you feel pity for such a guy?

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"In dnb you should make people jump not swim"
- Pieter Frenssen 2004

15-06-2004 16:55

poesjka poesjka is a female

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quote:

Originally posted by wicked_wayz
Rob 'klop' still got 6947 personal votes.... Shocked

says enough about the average inteligence here...

who's this ?

quote:

Originally posted by Emblem-X
what's that 'Sarkozy way'? got any links on that? looks interesting to me!

cheerz

hmm well, if you speak french you'll find a lot of literature about it i guess, otherwise... (ya know french ppl usually don't speak other lgg...)
Nicolas Sarkozy...
well he became the binnenminister after 2002's disastrous elections with the bijna officieel mission of reassuring the ppl who voted for Le Pen
he just spent 2 years travelling around in the hexagon to meet people and talk with them etc.
he increased a bit the presence of policemen, but in quality not in quantity i.e. retrieve some "useless" policemen from here to put 'em there, where they weren't more useful but they could be seen by the ppl, so that the ppl had the impression to have been heard. (eg many policemen, which we called Sarko-boys, were sent to la côte d'azur for the holidays, just to be there as most frenchies were there... see that's just communication
and a lot of communication, bv all french citizens received a letter from him, imagine they're dozens of millions citizens and everybody received a letter with the "liberté égalité fraternité" header, then a caring blabla and the signature of the binnenminister himself etc.
just d"you imagine receiving a letter of jl dehaene who would tell you he has heard your message and will try to do his best to improve your personal situation enz...

(the point is not about how nice Sarkozy is. he's just a fucking opportunist bastard politician who promised he would just accept that mission and would resign as soon as security is back in the country, but the government has just changed recently and he's been promoted as the finance minister and i guess he's planning sth for next presidential elections but yaaah that's just politics)
(actually the guy is hated by lots of young and party peepz bc he's been against weed/hasj and i know a lot of peepz who got fines because of smoking a spliffetje in the street... hay these conservative politicians suck Mad

hope this post is clear enough... remember i don't like the guy, but i'm sure his politics was quite effective...

courage & resistance !

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Poesjka

31/03 Café Détour @ Lille (FR)
17/05 www.jungletrain.net Motronicism live 17h-19h
28/07 Drum NN bass Part V @ Nieuwe Nor, Heerlen (NL)

15-06-2004 19:25

D-Lux
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Registration Date: 25-07-2003
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quote:

Originally posted by Surya
I don't think so.

In order to pass laws and stuff, you need the votes of 2/3rds of the govenment. And I don't think VB will ever get such a share if they ever get in the govenment. They WILL have to rule with other parties, and those won't go easy on them. A bit like Agalev was obstucted in a lot of ways when they tried to pass laws.. And the public puniched Agalev for that... So I don't think VB will be able to change a lot, and I do think the voters will punich them for it...

the persons who understand are finally beginning to show themselves in between of all the radical and extreem haterz (the haterz from the VB)

I am not defending the VB, only trying to make clear that hating aint the solution Wink

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15-06-2004 20:34

D-Lux
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btw, This is FINALLY a very intelligent POLITICAL discussion on a DnB board Big Grin

BIGUP every one for that Big Grin

btw, I agree with almost every thing said in here Smile

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15-06-2004 20:37

Surya

The Robot

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Are you referring to the breaks discussions? Big Grin

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"In dnb you should make people jump not swim"
- Pieter Frenssen 2004

15-06-2004 21:14

KoFFiE KoFFiE is a male

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quote:

Originally posted by emmetje

quote:

Originally posted by wicked_wayz
Rob 'klop' still got 6947 personal votes.... Shocked

says enough about the average inteligence here...

who's this ?

This guy:

quote:

Originally posted by KoFFiE
...
These are protest votes, for people who don't like it the VB is attacked by everyone - even in cases that are completely false - if you check out the story of "De Morgen" about the VB guy who supposedly beat up his wife in the middle of the street... What they failed to tell was that there was a divorse in progress - and that he got the "hoederecht" of the children - while his wife had a restraining order so she was not allowed to come near the children or the man. Fact is - that the man beat up the wife - but only after she attacked him with tear-gas in presence of the children.

...

I really don't know what I would do when I was attacked by someone with teargas in presence of my children... Roll Eyes

Anyway - I don't think the psychological way will work for the simple reason that the only-ones who have the ability to do so are the other parties - who have been discredited by a large part of the public by making the VB black.
Also - spreading FUD (Fear/Uncertainty/Doubt) is a lot easier than afterwards convince them that everything is fine. Also - you shouldn't say that everything is fine while there are clearly a few things screwed up seriously - and with this - some people are confronted every day, and enlarged by the VB. They actually have to deal with the problems - which is not easy at all - and the biggest issue here is that there will always be problems - and the governement is there to solve them, and if they don't, the VB will certainly (ab)use them in their political campain.
Yes - it sounds like a nice sollution, but too idealistic - I don't believe it will work. The only way really is to show that the VB is not the sollution. Let them in the governement. They should have done that last time already - I certainly hope they do this before it's too late. Some people don't believe the VB can grow any further - well I do believe they can.
I heard a lot of people who simply not agree with the Cordon Sanitaire - which is totally ondemocratic - who voted now for some other party, who said they will vote VB if they don't get in the flemisch parlement now.
I also find it a very bad thing that everybody calls the VB an ondemocratic party - while they apply the Cordon themselfs. Pure hypocrisy...

@D-Lux: I don't hate the VB - I think the party is very necessary - especially to point out the problems that the ruling parties don't see. Currently the other parties choose to simply ignore or minimize the majority problems pointed out by them - resulting in what we have seen this sunday... I don't blame the VB, I blame CD&V, VLD and SP.A - they are the ones who got us in this situation.

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This post has been edited 5 time(s), it was last edited by KoFFiE: 15-06-2004 21:46.

15-06-2004 21:36

D-Lux
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Registration Date: 25-07-2003
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quote:

Originally posted by Surya
Are you referring to the breaks discussions? Big Grin

Breakz discussionSSSSSS and desc discussionSSSSS

(meervoud idd Big Grin

)

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16-06-2004 09:24

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