 why does my shit sound like shit? |
kanibalboy 
Cool Producer
Registration Date: 28-06-2005
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wwwwhhhhhhhhhhhyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy???????
i use reason rewired in cubase so that i can mess with drums on the fly while at the same time using vst instruments. i use the mclass eq and compressor on my kiks and snares (seperatly of course), and i use mclass eqs on other sounds and try to place each sound in its own freq range.
so then i pretty much leave that rewire channel alone back in the cubase mixer. i try and eq my sounds with the vsti's as much as possible to keep everything mixed right. and i am careful with my mixer so that nothing is clipping.
so, the tune will be sounding pretty good untill i bounce it. then the bounced wave sounds like shit. i have even experimentd with using comp maximizer and limiter on the main channel before export, still sounds like shit! wtf am i doing wrong or not doing that i should be?
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14-01-2010 03:57 |
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Zugzwang
Doin' it for the love
Registration Date: 13-05-2009
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What do you mean when you say it sounds like shit? Are there artefacts, clipping, volume issues, pumping, crackling etc.? Or are you just not satisfied with it?
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14-01-2010 04:56 |
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kanibalboy
Cool Producer
Registration Date: 28-06-2005
Posts: 166
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well, i mean when i export it comes out reeeally muddy. ive posted like 3 tracks on this site wich would be an example. matter o fact, my whole mix sounds pretty muddy n distorted compared to some other peaoples work ive heard on this site.
i guess in general i am not satisfied with it. its frustrating you know?
i guess i am just venting about it.
i want my work to sound cleaner but still be nasty. HA! that makes sense : nasty n clean
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14-01-2010 06:17 |
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BattleDrone
2161... the future.
Registration Date: 30-12-2005
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You've got compression-issues.
Listen to your latest track from the start and after a few seconds jump to 1:05, you'll notice the drums get pushed in a corner due to the overpowered bass.
I think you really try too hard to make everything sound loud and crispy. Golden rule: If you can't beef a certain instrument up like you would like this probably means that all the other stuff is too loud already.
Turn all the levels down a bit and go easy on the compression.
Nasty does not equal loud, use distortion stuff to create nasty, not compression to death.
Muddyness is 250-800 Hz mainly, lower that a bit EQ-wise.
__
 Check my soundcloud (exclusive tracks on there)
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14-01-2010 09:45 |
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Gregg
Wicked Producer
Registration Date: 16-05-2007
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To get a production exactly the way you want it, or simply to sound the way another pro production does, requires a lot of training and experience. And it’s not only about equipment and technical knowledge; it’s also about you, your brain, your ears getting a further perception of sound.
Though, as you are “only” after a clean sound so far I can give you a few hints. This is the way I work and no laws or something. You can make it that way but it’s not the only, neither the best.
1. Take your time selecting samples and you are half-way there. Use only high quality ones and keep in mind that the initial kick or snare or whatever has to sound good already. There is no need to process crap sounds that end up sounding muddy when you can simply chose good ones in the first place.
If you want punchy drums for example browse your list of 2000 kicks and snares and pick a few that hit hard. try different combinations and don’t be lazy selecting the first one that is acceptable.
Now you can layer, eq and process to make something fat sounding even fatter. Be subtle using eq and effects tho!
Same thing when creating/browsing synth sounds. Don’t overload your projects with noise, keep it simple first and pay attention not to use highly dominant material that drowns everything in frequency spectrum from 0,1 to 8 kherz. If you pick your sounds intelligently you need less eqing (which is always good imo) later.
2. Mix down with precision. Assign every element to a mixer channel and kill the compression/ limiting on the master. Pull every mixer slider (except of the master) to 0 db and start to bring in the more dominant elements of your mix again, afterwards the more subtle. When you’re done mixing the synthscape nothing should stick out and it should be as one product. Listen at different volumes, if something sounds off figure out which element it is and adjust the volume.
bring in the drums and percussions so that they sit nicely in the mix. They may not cut through the synth the way you’d want it but don’t beef their volume too much to fix that. You’ll make enough room with eq in the next step. Again, check back at different volumes.
3. Start to eq the synthscape. Browse through every sound and remove disturbing frequencies (you could have done that earlier of course). Then play two elements (pad vs lead…) at the same time and tweak their eq so both are perfectly audible and don’t conflict with each other now longer. Add a third, fourth… sound and repeat the procedure.
At the end make room for your kick and snare. The kick needs room in the low end so eq or use sidechain compression. Mute all channels and listen to only kick versus sub and again to the whole production.
Check where your snare hits at and make room for that too. To avoid a cold sound resulting from too much eq-ing you can use slight side chaining for your snare as well (experiment!).
4. Add master compression now and you’ll see that with a proper sound selection, mixing and equing you can achieve some loudness with no muffle.
Of course this is just a very rough description and you could do million things more but I assume it will provide the clarity in sound that you were after.
Keep in mind that in every project you fucked up you learn something new and you have the chance to make it better the next try. And also take your time to get better, it won’t happen overnight.
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14-01-2010 13:36 |
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kanibalboy
Cool Producer
Registration Date: 28-06-2005
Posts: 166
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wow thx for the tips fellas, i will be patient and i will get it eventually. thx for the detailed description gregg and i will use this advice 
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and battle, you are the man! 
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14-01-2010 19:43 |
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Glim
Stuck In The Late Nineties
Registration Date: 16-10-2004
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Gregg
To get a production exactly the way you want it, or simply to sound the way another pro production does, requires a lot of training and experience. And it’s not only about equipment and technical knowledge; it’s also about you, your brain, your ears getting a further perception of sound.
Though, as you are “only” after a clean sound so far I can give you a few hints. This is the way I work and no laws or something. You can make it that way but it’s not the only, neither the best.
1. Take your time selecting samples and you are half-way there. Use only high quality ones and keep in mind that the initial kick or snare or whatever has to sound good already. There is no need to process crap sounds that end up sounding muddy when you can simply chose good ones in the first place.
If you want punchy drums for example browse your list of 2000 kicks and snares and pick a few that hit hard. try different combinations and don’t be lazy selecting the first one that is acceptable.
Now you can layer, eq and process to make something fat sounding even fatter. Be subtle using eq and effects tho!
Same thing when creating/browsing synth sounds. Don’t overload your projects with noise, keep it simple first and pay attention not to use highly dominant material that drowns everything in frequency spectrum from 0,1 to 8 kherz. If you pick your sounds intelligently you need less eqing (which is always good imo) later.
2. Mix down with precision. Assign every element to a mixer channel and kill the compression/ limiting on the master. Pull every mixer slider (except of the master) to 0 db and start to bring in the more dominant elements of your mix again, afterwards the more subtle. When you’re done mixing the synthscape nothing should stick out and it should be as one product. Listen at different volumes, if something sounds off figure out which element it is and adjust the volume.
bring in the drums and percussions so that they sit nicely in the mix. They may not cut through the synth the way you’d want it but don’t beef their volume too much to fix that. You’ll make enough room with eq in the next step. Again, check back at different volumes.
3. Start to eq the synthscape. Browse through every sound and remove disturbing frequencies (you could have done that earlier of course). Then play two elements (pad vs lead…) at the same time and tweak their eq so both are perfectly audible and don’t conflict with each other now longer. Add a third, fourth… sound and repeat the procedure.
At the end make room for your kick and snare. The kick needs room in the low end so eq or use sidechain compression. Mute all channels and listen to only kick versus sub and again to the whole production.
Check where your snare hits at and make room for that too. To avoid a cold sound resulting from too much eq-ing you can use slight side chaining for your snare as well (experiment!).
4. Add master compression now and you’ll see that with a proper sound selection, mixing and equing you can achieve some loudness with no muffle.
Of course this is just a very rough description and you could do million things more but I assume it will provide the clarity in sound that you were after.
Keep in mind that in every project you fucked up you learn something new and you have the chance to make it better the next try. And also take your time to get better, it won’t happen overnight. |
That has got to be some of the best advice I've read anywhere for a while, nicely put too Gregg, good one mate!
__
My Sounds
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14-01-2010 20:36 |
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BattleDrone
2161... the future.
Registration Date: 30-12-2005
Posts: 6,413
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| quote: |
Originally posted by kanibalboy
wow thx for the tips fellas, i will be patient and i will get it eventually. thx for the detailed description gregg and i will use this advice
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and battle, you are the man!
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Gregg is the man.... that's really good advise.
__
Check my soundcloud (exclusive tracks on there)
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14-01-2010 20:55 |
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junglist06
Player
Registration Date: 12-09-2006
Posts: 310
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Glim
That has got to be some of the best advice I've read anywhere for a while, nicely put too Gregg, good one mate! |
wicked advice gregg! great reading.
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aka D-Man.....salute the junglist general
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14-01-2010 21:35 |
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Age Break
Filth is my second name
Registration Date: 30-11-2009
Posts: 465
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15-01-2010 09:35 |
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Pure_bordem
Tourist
Registration Date: 27-11-2009
Posts: 36
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another thing... dont let your mix go above digital 0 if your bouncing to CD quality (16bit at 44.1k) otherwise it will distort like a mofo at that point
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FL Studio, get it here for 10% off
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16-01-2010 03:49 |
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kanibalboy
Cool Producer
Registration Date: 28-06-2005
Posts: 166
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ok, i have learned alot from gregg here as these instructions have been put to good use over the last two days. when in cubase i have improved the sound of my mix 100% thanx to the guidance from you guys and some experimentation. i think i have learned alot in the last two days.
but anyway, so, i am in cubase gently making love to my mix, and it sounds really good. but when i bounce to wave and play in winamp, it sounds like shit, completly different then staight from within the daw.
any ideas on why this is?
i have tried bouncing at 16, 24, and 32float. i have tried bouncing with and without compression on the master.
btw, by "it sounds like shit after bounce then play in winamp", i mean it sounds like, way muffled and suffocated and without dynamics. when played live in cubase though it sounds good.
i am completly flaburgasted and bamboozeled. 
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16-01-2010 06:07 |
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GeeZZ
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Registration Date: 31-03-2007
Posts: 163
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i ent use winamp for years so dunno wot its like, try playin it thru media player or sumfin else see if it aint u winamp at fault, i notice sumtimes wmp seems to add a very heavy compression to stuff u play on it spesh if you alter the equaliser.
wot bitrate are you are bouncing to, i think that will give you the most obvious difference @ 320kps you wont hear a difference obviously the lower you go the worst quality dont go below 192.
maybee check your bouncing options i dont know bout the software u usein jus double check your bouncin the master and everything is routed to that. your plugins are switched on durring the bounce. sounds stupid but am jus saying double check what is u attually bouncin and how , all the options and stuff, cos i cant see a reason it would sound any diffent as long your not usein a low bitrate, and wen youve bounced your playing it thru the same monitors.
failing that its your ears maybee your gettin to used to your mix then leavin it a while while you bounce then hearin it fresh an noticein the mud. or maybee after you bounce your listenin at a diff volume.
i jus realised u sed u fix u clipin issues, but did u? i think in digital production you can thoreticly go infinately over 0db (as far as u monitors will allow) without clippin but once you bounce down then its goin to get cutt off cud this be sumfin to do with it/ check u levels again.
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16-01-2010 10:37 |
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Zugzwang
Doin' it for the love
Registration Date: 13-05-2009
Posts: 206
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You said you've been bouncing your track to .wav format, have you tried exporting as .mp3 or converting to .mp3? I know sometimes media players have problems with .wav files.
Also, Winamp has an EQ built into it, you should check and make sure that everything is normal, no presets are activated, no frequencies are being boosted or reduced. Because that could be a big problem.
Also, try playing your song in something other than Winamp to see if its just a problem with that.
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19-01-2010 04:41 |
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selig
Steppa
Registration Date: 10-07-2008
Posts: 159
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Sentinel
Nothing ever does sound as good exported as it does in its raw state inside the daw. |
It should sound exactly the same. I bounce things down all the time in reaper and it never sounds any different.
To test it try playing the exported wav alongside what's in your daw but with the polarity reversed, if they're the same they should cancel each other out so you're left with silence.
Some synths and fx might not cancel though, such as ones that are trying to be more like analogue by being a bit different every time.
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20-01-2010 10:41 |
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Gregg
Wicked Producer
Registration Date: 16-05-2007
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What happens if you re-import the wav into your daw? If it sounds different you screwed something during the process of exporting, if not it’s a different issue.
Usually there shouldn’t be a difference between “in-daw” sound and exported material. The only thing I can think of is that your OS may run with a different sound driver than cubase. I for instance used to have the asio for all driver for my daw and the crap realtek driver for windows. The difference was only noticeable volume wise though, can’t tell why there is muffle or likewise...
So try the re-importing thing and check the drivers you use.
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20-01-2010 20:49 |
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kanibalboy
Cool Producer
Registration Date: 28-06-2005
Posts: 166
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well fellas, i think ive got to the bottom of this.
in cubase, i wasnt exporting in "real time", so i think that was causing the rewire channels and vst channels to not beable to update fast enough during the mixdown process.
i am pretty sure that had alot to do with it. i tried doing my mixdown in real time on one of my projects, ( a fairly small one with only 2 vst channels and 4 or 5 rewire channels) and the result was alot cleaner!
but unfortunatly, when i tried bouncing this way with my main project at the moment, (wich is huge, like 10 rewire channels and 4 or 5 vst channels and mad eq's and some sidechaining and other fx!!) my cpu could not handle it 
even after "freezing" all the vst channels. but its ok i have some ideas to work around this.
also though, i am gonna try and see what my renderings sound like on another media player, as you guys are probably right about winamp, although thats what i use for everything.
also great idea about re-importing and examining inside the daw. i will also do this.
but yeah, bouncing in "real time" seemed to make a huge difference.
thx for all your help fellas
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21-01-2010 00:14 |
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