Originally posted by Muad'Dib
A star can transmit energy and receive energy. Think of it as a really big resonator, like a neuron.
Which complies with my theory that we're a part of a big conscious machinery - a big brain, if you will. And stars and similar objects are resonators and sub-groups of 'neurons' in the whole thing.
Might be true.
Stupid christians, I'd say that too. You sure he was called Vid? That's 'sight' I believe.
I can't bring myself to indulge that particular 'big brain' notion I'm afraid! (though it may make good sci-fi-fantasy material
)
Our 'answers' lie in the quantum world and beyond. Far more interesting and wondrous than any religous viewpoints.
Provided the er, messiah doesn't arrive (of course) to answer the 'believers' prayers
Exactly. You should write about religion and science more often!
quote:
Originally posted by Greyone
the drum'n'bass is just distraction, the real deal is the offtopic here !
This is true.
__ MySpace | Soundcloud | Drumnbass.be | Facebook "It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." Carl Sagan
I can't bring myself to indulge that particular 'big brain' notion I'm afraid! (though it may make good sci-fi-fantasy material
)
Our 'answers' lie in the quantum world and beyond. Far more interesting and wondrous than any religous viewpoints.
Provided the er, messiah doesn't arrive (of course) to answer the 'believers' prayers
whos to say the "messiah" wont actually be say, new astounding development of quantum physics ? do you really think they (religious people) really believe in a "bearded man" to be god and that messiah will be a man? youd be amazed as to how open minded religious people can be
dont fall into atheist trap, because atheism comes from hatred. Im no believer myself, but lately I find more similariites between different beliefs in god, astronomy and philosophy. it all boils down to answering the unanswerable, through what way it is answered defines the flavor (religion, philosophy, astronomy etc.)
Well, if most religious folk believed that the messiah was science-based I wouldn't be complaining!
I mean, most religions have some kind of universal consciousness thats apparently responsible for our existence (as well as everything else) - that I have a problem with.
I know a lot of 'Christians' who don't really believe in that however, they do however have an irrational belief (that brings them comfort apparently) that there's something/someone looking out for them before and after they die and thus that life isn't pointless.
Some of these people are scientists! I find that paradoxical...
For those that see no point in existence if there's nothing after death - that's missing the whole point. Life is about living (lol), its a personal journey that should be cherished. I personally couldn't care less about what happens after I die because well, I'll be dead I'm afraid!
Answering the unanswerable - yes! Indeed, thats true. There are similarities between the different beliefs, however the only one I find to be valid is that which is based in science ie. facts, proof and explanations.
Simply choosing to answer currently unanswerable questions with another set of unprovable, untestable beliefs is akin to not studying for a test and copying the answers from someone you don't even know (that was slightly below par but im in a hurry
)
P.S - I'm a (very happy) atheist and it doesn't stem from hatred, I don't hate anyone for their beliefs. Each person is entitled to believe whatever they want, that is their right. However, they should not be led to believe fallacious dogma from birth, which is how these beliefs (usually) take root.
Anyway, I have to be going now as I have to see a man about a dog
P.S - sorry for the rambling, I know some of that was slightly disjointed!
__
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Well, if most religious folk believed that the messiah was science-based I wouldn't be complaining!
I mean, most religions have some kind of universal consciousness thats apparently responsible for our existence (as well as everything else) - that I have a problem with.
I know a lot of 'Christians' who don't really believe in that however, they do however have an irrational belief (that brings them comfort apparently) that there's something/someone looking out for them before and after they die and thus that life isn't pointless.
Some of these people are scientists! I find that paradoxical...
For those that see no point in existence if there's nothing after death - that's missing the whole point. Life is about living (lol), its a personal journey that should be cherished. I personally couldn't care less about what happens after I die because well, I'll be dead I'm afraid!
Answering the unanswerable - yes! Indeed, thats true. There are similarities between the different beliefs, however the only one I find to be valid is that which is based in science ie. facts, proof and explanations.
Simply choosing to answer currently unanswerable questions with another set of unprovable, untestable beliefs is akin to not studying for a test and copying the answers from someone you don't even know (that was slightly below par but im in a hurry
)
P.S - I'm a (very happy) atheist and it doesn't stem from hatred, I don't hate anyone for their beliefs. Each person is entitled to believe whatever they want, that is their right. However, they should not be led to believe fallacious dogma from birth, which is how these beliefs (usually) take root.
Anyway, I have to be going now as I have to see a man about a dog
P.S - sorry for the rambling, I know some of that was slightly disjointed!
second that
life is a trip and you choose the directions (cause) , wich result in effect . think outside the box , experience and learn , and just do stuff.
Originally posted by Phyella
For those that see no point in existence if there's nothing after death - that's missing the whole point. Life is about living (lol), its a personal journey that should be cherished. I personally couldn't care less about what happens after I die because well, I'll be dead I'm afraid!
Answering the unanswerable - yes! Indeed, thats true. There are similarities between the different beliefs, however the only one I find to be valid is that which is based in science ie. facts, proof and explanations.
Simply choosing to answer currently unanswerable questions with another set of unprovable, untestable beliefs is akin to not studying for a test and copying the answers from someone you don't even know (that was slightly below par but im in a hurry
)
P.S - I'm a (very happy) atheist and it doesn't stem from hatred, I don't hate anyone for their beliefs. Each person is entitled to believe whatever they want, that is their right. However, they should not be led to believe fallacious dogma from birth, which is how these beliefs (usually) take root.
Anyway, I have to be going now as I have to see a man about a dog
P.S - sorry for the rambling, I know some of that was slightly disjointed!
life after death - why is that impossible? its one of those unanswerable questions. sure - we've got no evidence of such an existence - but at the same time we don't have evidence that it's impossible.
I like not to bother myself with such huge questions that involve heavy thinking. simply because up to now, I haven't heard of a believable answer anywhere, therefore I can't accept religion's promisses of sweet afterlife, but only if you behave nicely in this world. at the same time, those that enforce such belief are infected with most foul types of corruption and deceit, the rules don't apply to them, they have fancy cars and good housing in good parts of town, disgusting is the way they love to fiddle with politics etc. religion's answers tend to be too enforcing, the minute someone mouths them instantly I feel repulsion, for the sole fact that we (like to think) are free thinking and repel any patronizing, especially coming from the materialist, power hungry, corrupt "souls" ( love to use their terms against them ) that not only try, but succeed to tricking the population they are actually people close to god?!
scientific approach does have a lot more meaning and some things you can actually explain to yourself. but it waters down too easily, because of the lack of evidence it involves too much theory, or gets too complicated for a normal person to comprehend. from that angle I can accept people that follow religion because all of that is pretold. hell, often Id like to have faith in all that crap, I envy them as they easily find their peace whearas I have to think, moralize, explain to myself etc etc. you get my point, ignorance is bliss, easier is to not know, to have such blind faith, but; once you know you can't go back into ignorance.
saying atheism is from hatred, what I really was trying to say is generally, atheists are eager to flame and discuss religion but with closed ears, with preset answers, often mocking religion that can easily insult people of other beliefs. that in fact, defeats the whole point of atheism, because if we are to take an atheist approach and conclude that noone is god-given for anything, but where do the atheist find the strenght for such critique, shouldn't we all be, by atheist standards, free to think what we want?
point I'm trying to make is you don't have to be in any of the social groups. it's the groups that are bad IMO, "more numbers makes us stronger" kind of thinking, which is warlike and just plain wrong, since the questions are of meaning to all humanity, ultimately it's the divide that is wrong, for people organized in masses, eager to hate, wage disputes, wars for any reason that seems plausible at the moment and generally fits their idea, for the purpose of forgetting their own miserable lives and the complete lack of meaning to em, or simply fulfill their wish for death war and destruction which ultimately, mankind is marked with
back in the stoneage, when it was winter there wasnt really anything to eat, everything was scarce, and the cold was killing people off. come summer, everything blooms. for them, it was easy to assume that it comes from the sun. they left shelters easily, but there was the danger of wildlife. but man understood how the world works, respected it, proof of that is that first artwork represent animal life. the animals were not gods to them, the drawings may well be a boast of how the hunt went well or awe at seeing a huge animal, or even lessons for outside behavior. but we dont know for certain, point being the things they drew were wildlife
but the modern views on belief are an enormous set of unknown and known writings, filtered through and combined into a book, yes one book to answer it all. theres a few major religions and they all work pretty much the same way. I dont mean to offend but the church artwork is a tedious set of pictures with set rules on composition, size and even colors. not so long ago, people burned at stakes for writing/drawing even composing stuff which were in some way the least offending towards religion. music Im not commenting, there could be a few gems there. its the rules that keep people glued to it, awed by how everything is in order, godly maybe? how can that be when almost everything that is cool and is supposed to represent god at the same time is individual work, outside the set rules.
it is there for people to forget that there was other views, other ideas. forcedly, through sacrifice only the stuff needed for mass hypnosis is left in it and we ask ourselves to the purpose of art, ultimate question being what are those animals in the cave supposed to represent, why they were drawn? see religion doesnt like art, other than of self. it is blasphemious to try to represent god in your way. for a lot of people in a few islamic states are living in a society where any music is forbidden!
phew, I could rant all day...
the real question is not is there a god but just: what god?
You didn't ramble Phyella, that was a brilliant post.
I just wanted to add a few words to one of your points...
quote:
Originally posted by Phyella
Simply choosing to answer currently unanswerable questions with another set of unprovable, untestable beliefs is akin to not studying for a test and copying the answers from someone you don't even know.
The advancement of scientific understanding has been relentless. Within just a few hundred years it has completely eroded the authority of religious doctrine. Where we once had religious dogma, we now have scientific knowledge. Two obvious examples would be our modern understanding of disease (we no longer think disease is caused by sin or demonic possession) and the emergence of animal and plant species in nature (we no longer regard them as independent creations of a God a few thousand years ago). Similarly, we now know how old the earth is, what the planets and stars are made of, how human beings evolved, the make-up of the human body, the physical properties of matter at the atomic level, the laws of physics that govern the movement of astronomical bodies, and so much more.
None of this was aided by religion or faith. The power of science to explain the workings of nature and the wider universe has completely undermined and superseded virtually every domain of religious belief. Can anyone point to an area of our knowledge that we once had a scientific explanation for, but which we now have a better, religious explanation for? The 'holy books' of the major religions have utterly failed to advance our understanding of how the real world actually works. You would assume that the Creator of the Universe would have some accurate, deep and detailed knowledge of how His creation works. Apparently not.
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I just can't imagine some kind of entity/creator at the top of our "hiërachy" LOL
I'm boss in MY universe
Everything's just 1 quantum 'blob', we are certain dynamics in it.
As a dynamic we have certain "control/choice", influence, and the feeling we are part of something bigger. (ether; time-space):
We are no boats navigating the water, but we are waves that come and go, and are part of the sea.
(And that's where imo a lot of people think wrong: we are no exception or "chosen ones", we're just a bunch of energetic harmonics/dynamics resonating in the ether; which are indespensable to create the total. (no existance without dynamics/harmonics) (I mean "total" as a dynamic, fluctuating(in time) hole, e.g. a universe)
We are embedded software in the universe
We can interact with other dynamics and create new harmonics/ new fractal dimensions. (bigger waves, smaller waves, storm, nothing (2 inversed waves-), vortex...
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Saikonutta: 31-07-2009 13:17.
And doesn't it amaze you how close quantum-physics and music are?
both abstract, but quite definable and 'quite' logic...
They don't give the 'absolute solution', they just show one of the virtual possibilities of that infinite matrix that makes sense for that particular instance...
/e: which is in my opninion very accurate
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Saikonutta: 31-07-2009 14:19.
Originally posted by Saikonutta
I just can't imagine some kind of entity/creator at the top of our "hiërachy" LOL
I'm boss in MY universe
Everything's just 1 quantum 'blob', we are certain dynamics in it.
As a dynamic we have certain "control/choice", influence, and the feeling we are part of something bigger. (ether; time-space):
We are no boats navigating the water, but we are waves that come and go, and are part of the sea.
(And that's where imo a lot of people think wrong: we are no exception or "chosen ones", we're just a bunch of energetic harmonics/dynamics resonating in the ether; which are indespensable to create the total. (no existance without dynamics/harmonics) (I mean "total" as a dynamic, fluctuating(in time) hole, e.g. a universe)
We are embedded software in the universe
We can interact with other dynamics and create new harmonics/ new fractal dimensions. (bigger waves, smaller waves, storm, nothing (2 inversed waves-), vortex...
Don't you guys see the similarity between this and my theory of the universe as a big intelligent resonator?
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Don't you guys see the similarity between this and my theory of the universe as a big intelligent resonator?
[
I see it more as a dynamic complex concerto of all kinds of resonances, which mathematically and logically always totals in 1 stable bounded groundform, 1 whole.
It depends how you look at it. (see "1"(a boundary) and/or "all" ( the (fractal) divisions)).
You can treat divisions as you like, the result will be "the same": logically limited by that boudnary.
I see the "intelligence" strictly as physical laws:
The "function" that makes that the complexity (the concerto) i described, always results in 1)
/e:with fractal divisions i mean: "brains in the brains in the brains in the brains..."
This post has been edited 4 time(s), it was last edited by Saikonutta: 31-07-2009 18:31.
Don't you guys see the similarity between this and my theory of the universe as a big intelligent resonator?
[
I see it more as a dynamic complex concerto of all kinds of resonances, which mathematically and logically always totals in 1 stable bounded groundform, 1 whole.
It depends how you look at it. (see "1"(a boundary) and/or "all" ( the (fractal) divisions)).
You can treat divisions as you like, the result will be "the same": logically limited by that boudnary.
I see the "intelligence" strictly as physical laws:
The "function" that makes that the complexity (the concerto) i described, always results in 1)
/e:with fractal divisions i mean: "brains in the brains in the brains in the brains..."
I used to think that the universe was totally harmonic, like 0 = 0 etc. as there is no other way, now, is it? But I started to let the disharmony in my thinking take a little part. I mean, the only harmonic thing that can exist is the non-existence, without any dynamics, relationships, grouping etc. Been thinking about this for some time now.
EDIT: In a sense, the universal harmony is the harmony and disharmony, which bring dynamics and order in the universe itself. Chaos theory and string theory support this, and quantum mechanics too.
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