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RMS Meter

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Halph-Price Halph-Price is a male

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Now, there's something messed with RMS definition. I found that it shouldn't be defined as RMS at all.... anyways, this is what I know about meters, not including RMS meters.

VU meter give an average of the audio (power) coming through the meter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VU_meter
Peak gives the max power of the audio (power) coming through the meter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_meter
PPM meter is more of a natural Peak meter that judges audio (power) like human hearing, disregarding fast transient peaks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_programme_meter
RMS meter = ??? (maybe equals VU Meter)

As far as I know RMS meter is the same a VU meter, just inappropriately named as the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy trilogy of 5 (soon to be 6).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hitchhi...e_to_the_Galaxy

Anyone got any clarity on this RMS bitch? Seems like some old school faggotry to me.

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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Halph-Price: 16-07-2009 17:53.

16-07-2009 17:50

Saikonutta
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VU -> gives momentary value

RMS -> gives value as it would be DC

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_1/3.html

quote:

“RMS” stands for Root Mean Square, and is a way of expressing an AC quantity of voltage or current in terms functionally equivalent to DC. For example, 10 volts AC RMS is the amount of voltage that would produce the same amount of heat dissipation across a resistor of given value as a 10 volt DC power supply. Also known as the “equivalent” or “DC equivalent” value of an AC voltage or current. For a sine wave, the RMS value is approximately 0.707 of its peak value.

This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Saikonutta: 17-07-2009 15:05.

17-07-2009 14:57

Halph-Price Halph-Price is a male

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Registration Date: 22-12-2004
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quote:

Originally posted by Saikonutta
VU -> gives momentary value

RMS -> gives value as it would be DC

... DC being on or off ...

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17-07-2009 15:00

Saikonutta
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Doesn't matter, it is a value "like if it would be DC",

a possible representation of an "average", for an "ideal or pure" waveform.

17-07-2009 15:09

Saikonutta
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do the test yourself Smile

do a RMS measurement of a pure wave, then process it by giving a bit off DC offset.

and measure again.

Now do this agian,

this time with a more complex form (make yourself an educative form Wink

), to see the change in RMS (: no more factor 0,707...)

repeat till you're convinced Happy

17-07-2009 15:17

Halph-Price Halph-Price is a male

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i'll take you word, i don't have a bread board on hand to test this out.

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17-07-2009 18:09

Saikonutta
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you just need 1 brain, 1 synth and 1 daw,

but ok, I respect your lazyness

/e :and a RMS measurement-system, yeah Teeth

This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Saikonutta: 17-07-2009 21:06.

17-07-2009 20:58

Halph-Price Halph-Price is a male

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quote:

RMS (Root‑mean‑square) A mathematical formula used to determine the average amplitude of an audio selection. RMS amplitude reflects perceived loudness better than peak amplitude.

I think RMS = VU unless you can show me somewhere they don't. either they call it VU or RMS and then they differentiate from VU/RMS meters and that of PEAK meters. that RMS and VU seem to be interchangeable in definition. just so I understand better is all.

It make sense if that's why it's so hard to find a good definition.

VU is british, RMS is probably the American version. like tube and valve, or condenser and capacitor microphones.

and to be honest, VU seems to make sense since RMS is to convert to DC power, and in music we're just using AC.

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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Halph-Price: 17-07-2009 22:16.

17-07-2009 22:10

Halph-Price Halph-Price is a male

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quote:

VU Meters
The VU meter is amongst the simplest of meter designs and have been used since the very beginnings of the broadcast, recording and live audio industries. VU meters come in the form of the Moving-coil Meter - the traditional 'needle' type of meter - or as a bar-graph of LEDs. [LEDs are the most common, with moving-coil meters now more often seen on 'retro' gear.]

VUs were designed to display an approximation of the RMS voltage level of electrical signals. The 'Root Mean Square' voltage is a technical measure of the average voltage level of electrical signals.

http://www.roadogz.com/stories/downunder/vumeters.htm

quote:

RMS is a real mathematical average level computation.
VU is a VERY specifically defined (in the 1930's) special case mechanical
response that makes a meter needle respond in a SPECIFIC visually useful way
on SPEECH material to attempt (pretty successfully) to show relative
LOUDNESS of the program in a visual manner. It's handy and useful if you
know how to interpret it.
RMS might well be a more useful type of monitoring aid, combined with a
peak-meter to make sure you;re ok there.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/47458-6-tomshardware

so VU is average of RMS in a specific manner, and RMS is a more accurate average. cool beans.

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This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Halph-Price: 17-07-2009 22:22.

17-07-2009 22:17

Saikonutta
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They use RMS to know how much heat in the coil of the speaker will be dissipated. (Because coils contain a resistive part..)

RMS is not a value for 'power' (in case of AC/music), to know the "average power", RMS values of the momentary tension and current are multiplied.

It's also used as "maximum continu output 'power'" In case of pure forms.

Complex forms like music -can- get a maximum RMS of 0.707*VU (if it's a pure wave)

RMS is simply: whatever value * 0,707 (this is only for PURE forms without DC offset...)

To describe the "TRUE" RMS value of more complex forms, the form is mathematically integrated (by sampling), so not simply multiplied with the value 0,707

This post has been edited 3 time(s), it was last edited by Saikonutta: 18-07-2009 12:12.

18-07-2009 11:42

Saikonutta
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Originally posted by Saikonutta
They use RMS to know how much heat in the coil of the speaker will be dissipated. (Because coils contain a resistive part..)

RMS is not a value for 'power' (in case of AC/music), to know the "average power", RMS values of the momentary tension and current are multiplied.

It's also used as "maximum continu output 'power'" In case of pure forms.

Complex forms like music -can- get a maximum RMS of 0.707*VU (if it's a pure wave)

RMS is simply: whatever value * 0,707 (this is only for PURE forms without DC offset...)

To describe the "TRUE" RMS value of more complex forms, the form is mathematically integrated (by sampling), so not simply multiplied with the value 0,707

quote:

...to show relative
LOUDNESS of the program in a visual manner...

Idd; this is the proper audio-technical explanation, you can measure how complex your dynamics are , in function to the loudness

This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Saikonutta: 18-07-2009 15:55.

18-07-2009 15:51

Halph-Price Halph-Price is a male

Zombie Algorithm

Registration Date: 22-12-2004
Posts: 6,160

Helpfulness rating:

quote:

Originally posted by Saikonutta
Originally posted by Saikonutta
They use RMS to know how much heat in the coil of the speaker will be dissipated. (Because coils contain a resistive part..)

RMS is not a value for 'power' (in case of AC/music), to know the "average power", RMS values of the momentary tension and current are multiplied.

It's also used as "maximum continu output 'power'" In case of pure forms.

Complex forms like music -can- get a maximum RMS of 0.707*VU (if it's a pure wave)

RMS is simply: whatever value * 0,707 (this is only for PURE forms without DC offset...)

To describe the "TRUE" RMS value of more complex forms, the form is mathematically integrated (by sampling), so not simply multiplied with the value 0,707

quote:

...to show relative
LOUDNESS of the program in a visual manner...

Idd; this is the proper audio-technical explanation, you can measure how complex your dynamics are , in function to the loudness

\

LOUDNESS vs POWER = VU vs RMS

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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Halph-Price: 18-07-2009 20:30.

18-07-2009 20:29

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