 Small Question about Bass |
napster55 
Snitch And Chemist
Registration Date: 14-06-2008
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just want peoples views, bass. how much bass would be enough for you in a mixdown?
just wondering because on the recent projects ive been on, ive been pushin alot alot of bass into the mix sumtimes gets muddy but just enough so its crisp and fat and heavy but some people would find it too much..
also having more bass in a mix would help issues when playing on a big system no?
i love chest pumpin skull fucking bass if im honest..
ill upload a track soon to explain exactly how i mean in a few days or so 
be on the look outtt.. big improvment 2
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13-06-2009 04:43 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
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what does bass fish have anything to do with music?
but seriously, you don't need to put to much into the mix if you can hear it. in clubs DJ's have a 3 band eq, and can just turn up the bass if they need.
I don't think it's ever too much either, some people get afraid when they hear the bass rolling out too loud, but it's fine. unless they got their setup done wrong, it won't cause the speakers to explode.
oh yeah, and you a total douche bag. 
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13-06-2009 05:57 |
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Zugzwang
Doin' it for the love
Registration Date: 13-05-2009
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I'm no audio engineer, but I think it's important to have a balanced mixdown; nothing noticably louder than anything else, like everything fits together. A fat bass can often be achieved between the sub bass and a lot of gritty mids - driving the volume up on the mixer isn't necessarily going to make it fat, just louder.
The saying goes, you can't polish a turd. 
It's important to have good samples first. Expand them if you need to, adding a little boost to the high-end sometimes makes it seem a little more present in the mix without hurting any of the low-end in the tune, or even some wet signal from reverb.
Generally when I mix I make sure the kick cuts through, the snare is nice and crisp, and the bass is about as loud as those elements, sometimes lower if there is a lot of distortion on the bass. These are essential to DnB, while everything else can be generally quieter. The hats, pads, and other synths can be audible and present in a mix without being driven up on the mixer - and a lot of times, the bass can too.
Try this, get your drums sounding punchy and then add your bass in there. Then turn down your bass and see how low you can drop the volume while still maintaining presence in the mix - you'd be surprised sometimes, how unnecessarily loud bass can be. You certainly don't want it overpowering everything else in the mix. 
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13-06-2009 06:14 |
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Phalanx
Chronologic
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I think loud bass is accompanied best by dynamics. I love when a fairly consistent sub is driven by lots of modulating mid bass (but then I really like neuro.) If the bass slides around in the mix it'll give the other elements more breathing room.
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13-06-2009 10:50 |
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CULTURE BOY
v v v iv a record missing
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13-06-2009 14:01 |
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napster55
Snitch And Chemist
Registration Date: 14-06-2008
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Halph-Price
oh yeah, and you a total douche bag.
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u dickhead.
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13-06-2009 14:05 |
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cynik
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dunno, I hate that thundering effect when you turn up bassy productions. then again theres music with quite some bass and that does not thunder. must be a particular frequency hit. you can never have too much sub but if there is too much pre-mastering youre gonna have problems with limiting, the mix will be too silent. but the real problem arises when the area of higher bass frequencies are crowded and it troubles the kick drum, so it sounds muddy
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13-06-2009 14:17 |
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napster55
Snitch And Chemist
Registration Date: 14-06-2008
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i get what ur saying. when too much sub in a production the mix will be quieter according to your ears, where as the rms level meters read it to be loud, percieved loudness as you can not hear the sub depending on the lowest frequencies obviously. but the main question is how much bass is enough? or even not enough?
does any find problems with too much bass in mixdowns? (i dont im just curious 
)
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13-06-2009 14:38 |
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CULTURE BOY
v v v iv a record missing
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13-06-2009 14:47 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
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as an audio engineer I always thought it was weird. sub is like 10% of the mix. and yet you guys always focus on that 10% of the mix more then anything else. by, you guys, i mean dubheads.
you don't need to make the mix have so much bass, as long as you can hear it.
but the problem with sub is the 100-30hz area. due to the masking effect, high freq cloud/block lower freq.
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13-06-2009 15:01 |
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cynik
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@napster: seems to me too much thinking and evaluating about it has gotten you unable to measure. "not seeing the forest from the tree". I know it sounds cliche but its all tune-individual. suggest listeining to the released tunage that sound right about enough bass for you then compare
@culture boy: yeha I quite get that a lot, so I forcedly turn the sub down before exporting. but theres my problem that then theres less bass. tricky as fuck, but then you can consider some after-mixdown bass enhancement like multiband compression on the entire wav. that can do good only if the mix is clear enough in the first place though, out of my experience, otherwise it makes the mix sound a lot different
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13-06-2009 15:05 |
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Gregg
Wicked Producer
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When your sub is mixed badly or simply overpowering you’ll have problems as soon as people turn up your mix and are not having a strong enough system with enough bass reproduction. Their membrane will not be able to deal with the huge amount of sub and the whole is going to sound shit and undefined.
Imo the key is having a lower volume sub that is still audible due to the right amount of compression vs harmonic excitement. Your bass will appear powerful on lower volumes but sill is precise on higher levels. If you don’t overload your tune with various elements it helps to let the bass cut trough better as well.
Sometimes it even makes sense to shift the whole composition for a few notes in order to have the bass hit at the right frequencies.
An effective use of melody programming will also underline the heaviness of your low end if you are not constantly playing bass notes that are in the “subby” range. You may shift to an octave above or go down in the 30 hz area for a short period, just in order to get back to the frequency area where your sub punches most.
There can be no loud if there is no quiet!
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13-06-2009 15:11 |
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napster55
Snitch And Chemist
Registration Date: 14-06-2008
Posts: 75
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| quote: |
Originally posted by CULTURE BOY
this could be why im having shit getting a loud mix, may have to turn the subs down even tho my ears wont like it |
that may be. but only until you hear distortion then thats to turn it down, trust your ears, if you push it to the max and u cant hear any distortion than that shouldnt be a problem at all, i like alot of sub in my tunes but i dont aim for a loud mix i aim for a more natural volume without pushing the meters just below the red, hard to explain but mixdowns not so loud.
another thing i have been trying is widening bass sounds. now your proberly gunna b like wtf. but bass sounds with no bass frequiences obviously and the sub stays CENTRE.. strange, the mixes are sounding tight and tidy has any1 ever tried this and got really good results?
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13-06-2009 15:52 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
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you shouldn't hear distortion in the mix, that would mean it's clipping. the mix should neve go "into the red" it should NEVER clip. that's not just a preference thing, that's just mechanical part of manufacturing music.
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13-06-2009 17:38 |
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cynik
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Gregg
Sometimes it even makes sense to shift the whole composition for a few notes in order to have the bass hit at the right frequencies. |
2nd
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13-06-2009 18:59 |
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BattleDrone
2161... the future.
Registration Date: 30-12-2005
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Gregg
Sometimes it even makes sense to shift the whole composition for a few notes in order to have the bass hit at the right frequencies. |
That's why I always start with doing bass... this way you can let it hit the sweet spot without having to go through the tedious process of shifting all stuff a few notes.
First make a good bassline that sounds nice and powerful without clipping. Then "dress it up" with pads and stuff.
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13-06-2009 20:09 |
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demure
mastication fo de nation
Registration Date: 22-01-2009
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i always add bass last 
i then make a bassline that helps to drive the rest of the tune if the bassline is following the general theme of the tune and certain notes are too low i just take that note and transpose it to something that harmonically works with the other notes its playing with
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13-06-2009 21:00 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
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| quote: |
Originally posted by demure
i always add bass last
i then make a bassline that helps to drive the rest of the tune if the bassline is following the general theme of the tune and certain notes are too low i just take that note and transpose it to something that harmonically works with the other notes its playing with |
that's what the beatles did for the entire srgt. pepper album. bass was the last thing that went into every song, in fact i do believe they did the album first, then added bass after. the way they recorded the songs on 4 track also helped give them a clear bass.
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13-06-2009 21:06 |
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demure
mastication fo de nation
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to be honest i find it helps to make basslines that compliment the tune and help rather than makin the bass the main focus
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13-06-2009 21:11 |
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