 Loudness War |
CULTURE BOY 
v v v iv a record missing
Registration Date: 12-01-2007
Posts: 1,415
Helpfulness rating:
 |
|
|
|
28-02-2009 06:21 |
|
|
Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
Posts: 6,160
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
| quote: |
Originally posted by Muad'Dib
| quote: |
Originally posted by BattleDrone
| quote: |
Originally posted by Muad'Dib
| quote: |
Originally posted by Halph-Price
you don't need 8 speakers to emulate surround sound, you only need 2 speakers to mimic complete 360 surround sound. BOSE. |
Yeah, but you need a special room for that. With 8 speakers (or at least 4) you can have whatever room which has enough space to put them all about and on enough distance. |
It can be emulated on headphones too AFAIK they have 2 speakers. |
Yeah, I know, but they are too close to you, not affected by room shape, reverb etc. |
actually it's that very reason that headphones work better to emulate surround, because it basically mimics the way audio is processed by your earlobes themselves. all those bumps and ridges and what not help you define the direction of audio. not just from left right back and front, but up and down as well.
so with headphones it's purely that and sound as true as if it was real, generally. it's used in video games all the time.
also with 8 speakers, i mean, that's like 6 more then most clubs. that's means 3 more stereo amps, and 6 more speakers. that's not cheap.
oh and hears the best part, with more speakers you get MORE CANCELLATIONS. that means some spots will have dead zones. you'd have spots int he middle of the room, playing a dub song, and there would be NO sub, AT ALL. this is assuming you run the bass out of each speaker. surround sound is meant for you to be in the MIDDLE of the speakers.
it fucks up if you're not. with only 2 speakers you get a lot less interference generally. even then, if you've ever tried to mix with 2 loudspeakers, or 2 line arrays, you ave to walk around and listen to get a better average of the room.
no i would not ever want to mix with a speaker on every wall and corner. oh god there's another problem, you'd have to put the speakers not in the corners but beside them, so there's be almost no wall space...
all those 5.1 mixes are meant for at home easy listening, not jungle rave parties, where you give them 3 more speakers to trash.
__
|
|
|
28-02-2009 06:59 |
|
|
Muad'Dib
Andrejnalin
Registration Date: 02-12-2003
Posts: 4,197
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
| quote: |
Originally posted by Halph-Price
| quote: |
Originally posted by Muad'Dib
| quote: |
Originally posted by BattleDrone
| quote: |
Originally posted by Muad'Dib
| quote: |
Originally posted by Halph-Price
you don't need 8 speakers to emulate surround sound, you only need 2 speakers to mimic complete 360 surround sound. BOSE. |
Yeah, but you need a special room for that. With 8 speakers (or at least 4) you can have whatever room which has enough space to put them all about and on enough distance. |
It can be emulated on headphones too AFAIK they have 2 speakers. |
Yeah, I know, but they are too close to you, not affected by room shape, reverb etc. |
actually it's that very reason that headphones work better to emulate surround, because it basically mimics the way audio is processed by your earlobes themselves. all those bumps and ridges and what not help you define the direction of audio. not just from left right back and front, but up and down as well.
so with headphones it's purely that and sound as true as if it was real, generally. it's used in video games all the time.
also with 8 speakers, i mean, that's like 6 more then most clubs. that's means 3 more stereo amps, and 6 more speakers. that's not cheap.
oh and hears the best part, with more speakers you get MORE CANCELLATIONS. that means some spots will have dead zones. you'd have spots int he middle of the room, playing a dub song, and there would be NO sub, AT ALL. this is assuming you run the bass out of each speaker. surround sound is meant for you to be in the MIDDLE of the speakers.
it fucks up if you're not. with only 2 speakers you get a lot less interference generally. even then, if you've ever tried to mix with 2 loudspeakers, or 2 line arrays, you ave to walk around and listen to get a better average of the room.
no i would not ever want to mix with a speaker on every wall and corner. oh god there's another problem, you'd have to put the speakers not in the corners but beside them, so there's be almost no wall space...
all those 5.1 mixes are meant for at home easy listening, not jungle rave parties, where you give them 3 more speakers to trash. |
I agree on everything with you except that surround mixing is not for jungle parties. It can be done, but I guess not in that way. Cancellation and loud spots are a big problem, yeah. It is nearly impossible to set up all those speakers just right so that you can hear the 3d space from everywhere.
Maybe the only solution will be this:
everyone to carry their own WiFi headphones, with a position and direction detector, so that a software can play suitable 3D surround sound information based on your position and direction.
Not a big chance that this will happen, though.
__
Thinking about becoming an Image-Line/FL Studio customer? Want a 10% reduction in price? Use this affiliate link:
http://affiliate.image-line.com/BADEBDG473
There is no such thing without its opposite
-Bene Gesserit
|
|
|
05-03-2009 16:20 |
|
|
Muad'Dib
Andrejnalin
Registration Date: 02-12-2003
Posts: 4,197
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
| quote: |
Originally posted by CULTURE BOY
STOP GOING OFF POST! |
Sorry mate, promise to get back on the real subject 
__
Thinking about becoming an Image-Line/FL Studio customer? Want a 10% reduction in price? Use this affiliate link:
http://affiliate.image-line.com/BADEBDG473
There is no such thing without its opposite
-Bene Gesserit
|
|
|
05-03-2009 16:21 |
|
|
PLaGuE CeLL
Subwoofer on a Killing Spree
Registration Date: 13-01-2006
Posts: 225
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
| quote: |
Originally posted by Halph-Price
actually it's that very reason that headphones work better to emulate surround, because it basically mimics the way audio is processed by your earlobes themselves. all those bumps and ridges and what not help you define the direction of audio. not just from left right back and front, but up and down as well.
|
I was talking to my lecturer today, and apparently its not the pinna specifically that helps you determine if something is behind or in front or up or down, and that we can only really hear left and right.
The whole pinna causing little phases and filtering to help you determine that sorta thing only works if your brain is so familiar with a sound that it is able to determine how it would sound coming from behind you for example.
He said the real reason we can 'instantly' tell is that we instinctively cock our head to get a different perspective (all it takes it moving a few degrees to pinpoint where it's coming from)
Also we'd be going into acoustic memory stuff here, for example if we hear a helicopter we know it's most likely above us through life experience, and would need to move our head slightly to determing exactly from where (providing the sound wasn't bouncing off buildings and whatnot)
He's a jolly interesting man my lecturer
__
My Myspace
|
|
|
05-03-2009 23:09 |
|
|
Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
Posts: 6,160
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
| quote: |
Originally posted by PLaGuE CeLL
| quote: |
Originally posted by Halph-Price
actually it's that very reason that headphones work better to emulate surround, because it basically mimics the way audio is processed by your earlobes themselves. all those bumps and ridges and what not help you define the direction of audio. not just from left right back and front, but up and down as well.
|
I was talking to my lecturer today, and apparently its not the pinna specifically that helps you determine if something is behind or in front or up or down, and that we can only really hear left and right.
The whole pinna causing little phases and filtering to help you determine that sorta thing only works if your brain is so familiar with a sound that it is able to determine how it would sound coming from behind you for example.
He said the real reason we can 'instantly' tell is that we instinctively cock our head to get a different perspective (all it takes it moving a few degrees to pinpoint where it's coming from)
Also we'd be going into acoustic memory stuff here, for example if we hear a helicopter we know it's most likely above us through life experience, and would need to move our head slightly to determing exactly from where (providing the sound wasn't bouncing off buildings and whatnot)
He's a jolly interesting man my lecturer
|
the pinna and all that other ridges and bumps, only help with a certain frequency of sound, but even with headphones on playing DOOM, you can tell direction by turning left to right. there's nothing fancy there, just directional sound.
but in the same example playing doom, you tell distance by level of volume, and direction by the panning. but you cannot tell if it's in front or behind. if something is behind it's muffled, because of your ears. the up and down works still on that principle, that when you face directly at something it's more clear.
and yea a lot of it is assumed, i mean direction of bass people can guess at where eminates from, based on that, evn though it's omnidirectional. you watch a movie see shit shaking earth cracks open and feel bass rumble, you assume it's the earth. you watch a star ship go by hear the engine rubmle, feel base, yuo assume it's the ship above.
but it's the sounds you don't see, that you hear, that you know where there coming from, that is more of a mindfuck. infact you'll hear it and not even notice it. when i was told this principles first i was playing GTA 3. I was on the third island, when i actual stopped and noticed that i could tell the sounds of traffic infront and behind me differently in my headphones, while running from the cops.
it was more then memory. even with my eyes closed and spinning , then took a listen as i turned, still with eyes closed, i could tell exactly if i was facing towards or away from the sound.
nice mindfucks, love em. I haven't had a chance to mess with above and below sounds in any other settings, but the same principles are suppose to apply. they can do it in movies, with just making the camera move a little bit and it would do the same thing, of how we locate sounds. even just subliminally. these are, in fact, all subliminal things, that every day people don't give a fuck about.
oh yeah, adn about ontopic, fucking turn it UP mother fucker, I AM ON A BOAT.
__
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Halph-Price: 31-03-2009 17:32.
|
|
|
31-03-2009 17:30 |
|
|
SPLICE
Newbie
Registration Date: 05-04-2009
Posts: 1
|
|
|
|
05-04-2009 21:38 |
|
|
Zugzwang
Doin' it for the love
Registration Date: 13-05-2009
Posts: 206
Helpfulness rating:
|
|
I think in sub-genres like liquid, texture of sound and dynamics of all of the elements are really important and enhance the atmosphere. Genres with emphasis on atmosphere etc. greatly benefit from dynamics and you can make the right parts stand out with compression, like the kick and the snare (the parts people will be bobbing there head to or whatever
) while keeping the vibe of the track intact.
On the other hand, if you want a powerful fucking spank on the ass like with a Current Value tune, you want all the loudness you can get.
The difference would become very clear if you had a mix with a Commix tune next to Cybernetics VIP.. fortunately most mixes stay close to one genre of DnB, so as long as liquid doesn't start getting loud, I think we'll be okay.
|
|
|
06-09-2009 16:01 |
|
|
SafeandSound
Cool Tourist
Registration Date: 19-10-2009
Posts: 32
|
|
There is nothing inherently wrong with getting you masters loud, it's a choice
as valid as a choice of having lots of dynamics in a track.
There are trade off's though, if you are not sure exactly how to get maximum
loudness, retain punch and low end content you can sacrifice a lot for pure level.
Keeping punch is very important IMO.
__
masteringmastering.co.uk
|
|
|
19-10-2009 20:28 |
|
|
|
