So I know there are loads of threads on this, but I am just trying to get my theory more up to scratch and thought a new thread would be appropriate.
Do you decide what key you will have a tune in before you start, or do you just play a chord that sounds good, and play and see what sounds good after that?
Are chords completely necessary in making tunes? if a tune is based around a bassline, then chords and progressions etc are not really a factor are they?
Any insights into this whole thing and how much music theory comes into play when you are makin your tunes would be appreciated.
personally i have always played using my ears (i tried to learn the piano and guitar when i was growing up but unfortunately pursued neither in the end to a respectable level)
ofcourse learning scales, chords can be a very useful tool especially if ur makin things like liquid as tunes in that genre are very melodically driven
So I know there are loads of threads on this, but I am just trying to get my theory more up to scratch and thought a new thread would be appropriate.
Do you decide what key you will have a tune in before you start, or do you just play a chord that sounds good, and play and see what sounds good after that?
Are chords completely necessary in making tunes? if a tune is based around a bassline, then chords and progressions etc are not really a factor are they?
Any insights into this whole thing and how much music theory comes into play when you are makin your tunes would be appreciated.
Ive got about 14 years of playing guitar / bass to a (distinctly) average standard and do have a reasonable knowledge of chord structure but to be honest I dont really use any of that knowledge when writing dnb. If I was writing a tune on the guitar then I'd definately be thinking in terms of musical theory when thinking "where / to what chord do I go from here?" Writing a drum n bass tune I just generally hack around on the keyboard until I have something that sounds right to me, so I rely a lot more on my ears I guess.
My experience of playing bass probably helps more in terms of achieving a groove??
I reckon a fairly small amount of knowledge only limits your creativity cos you're starting to understand the "rules" and you think you need toi stick to them, if your a full on genius or have very little knowledge then you should be fine
So I know there are loads of threads on this, but I am just trying to get my theory more up to scratch and thought a new thread would be appropriate.
Do you decide what key you will have a tune in before you start, or do you just play a chord that sounds good, and play and see what sounds good after that?
Are chords completely necessary in making tunes? if a tune is based around a bassline, then chords and progressions etc are not really a factor are they?
Any insights into this whole thing and how much music theory comes into play when you are makin your tunes would be appreciated.
I know i babbled on before but, Ii write all my notes by hand so everything I write i consider.
like, to get a dark tune, using a dark scale works. but sometimes to change that scale to make it seem right helps to contrast as well.
A chord is always necessary, unless you're only using one note. even if you don't play the notes at the same time, and one after another, that is still a chord.
if you play a C and then E, you just started to play a major chord, and it will sound happy. I have had 2 good teachers in music theory and on composition, respectively.
even if you play a happy chord, that consists of three notes, there's different ways of playing it. if you play the three notes one after another, or in reverse, or the first note then the last note then the middle note. you get different voicing.
so there's a lot to consider, and the majority of it is just by ear. with enough practice you can even recognize chords by ear, mainly by how they make you feel/ how they sound. happy, sad, mysterious.
so the feel for music affects what type of music. if you're doing dark step you won't have Major chords, because they're happy. if you do a lot of weird odd chords, it'll give it a jazz sound, good for chill music.
I've tried to fined other resources about this to try to help show this, but I couldn't find much. This was passed down to me by word of mouth.
every 2 notes is a chord. even the same note twice is a chord. it's called a unison and it's considered a major because it's completely resolved, and when played against anything else it will sound resolved. but when played over and over and over again it actually sounds pretty dark. and by playing the same note up and down an octave doesn't give much movement because it's the same note, but it still feels like it's moving/changing because the pitch changes.
you'll notice it in dance music, usually dark stuff, they'll have a bassline or something that'll play the same note over and over again. it's both perfectly resolved and yet also add's tension. sometimes the best chord is the same chord OVER AND OVER AGAIN. most every rock song does that, where the rift is just one chord over and over and then changes just at the end.
so yeah, a lot to consider, sometimes too much.
but to be honest a lot of the people that write drum and bass talking with them they just find it from it sounding good but they'll actually be using a jazz chord or scale, or for example there was a remix compo here a while back called "the silence" that Surya did. his main chord progression, or the melody he used, was used in classical music and was called the "wheel of fifths", for chord progressions.
he didn't know about it all, but it sounded good. and music theory says it sounded good because that's the natural way that chords want to progress. so it goes to show, you don't need to know theory, just listen to a lot of music and play what sounds right.
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This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Halph-Price: 19-02-2009 03:31.
I don't know a lot of musical theory. Don't need chords and chord progressions really.
I try to do the unexpected as long as it still sounds nice in some way. Sometimes a combination of notes (which could be considered to be a chord) sounds ugly with one instrument but "twisted" on another one, that's the one I'm after then.
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I like to bash around a few note patterns/chords then when I have something I like I just keep on basing the rest of the sounds round similar pattern / chords / notes etc.
Well at least I think I do but whatever.
There's some free piano class courses online if you google them which I found quite useful a while back mind as I've forgotten most of what I learned. - bloody bad memory.
also if you got a bassline palying just a note and another synth playing another note, that's a chord too. you obviously don't play basslines in chords, but combine notes from more then one instrument and you still get chords.
i dunno, i guess the thing you're more asking is do people just fiddle around on a keyboard or actual know what chords they want to play. and most everyone will fiddle on a keyboard.
the difference from knowing musical theory, is that when you fiddle on a keyboard, you'll have a better idea of WHY something sounds a cretin way.
it all comes out the same, it can't hurt to learn some musical theory. it'll only help you understand what you're doing, as opposed to just playing it all by ear. i mean, you'll also learn other methods from musical theory, that you might not know or do.
no one needs musical training to do music, you KNOW if two notes don't sound right, but with some knowledge you won't be just fiddling, but actually writing music.
personally i like chords so much i find i use too many notes, and try to cut it down to like just 3 notes at a time. the less notes the darker it usually sounds. The thing about music is you can choose any two random notes, and there's a way to make the two of them sound like they belong together. how you do that, is by the few notes played in between.
in all of music you can relate anything together, if you know how to bridge it right. like jazz music, where the musician can just totally go entirely off into a solo, and then with 3 chords they go right back into playing happy birthday or whatever the song was originally.
that's what's important, is making everything relate and seem like it fits together. not just with notes, or chords, or scales, but overall muscly. playing in a single scale, can help make music sound cohesive. but learning what scales can be played together, and for what reason, that helps as well. like fifth note in a scale can be the tonic note for another scale, and thus you can change between scales, and still have it sound like it fits.
i dunno, i love music and the way that it all works in such a varied way. there's no rules, just do whatever. if you ever get bored, or if you find you need some inspiration, look up some musical theory.
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Originally posted by Digital Cause
I get what your saying. My question in the most basic form is:
Can you compose a tune with just single notes, and using no chords. (forget about notes in sequence being "chords")
: )
if you have more then one instrument then it's a chord when they both play together.
but ignoring that ALSO, yes, in fact i think it sounds pretty good, it allows the notes to sound more for themselves, and not get so cluttered. a very open adn airy mix usually ensues.
but why? the goal is more important then the how, you can make a song and use every note on the keyboard, or you could only use like 5. the beatles have entire songs that are only 5 note scales, usually for Ringo because he was not the best singer.
Anyways...
i dunno if you mean not using scales either too, and making atonal music, which is usually used in dark music like drum n bass.
if you don't follow any musical chords or scales it gives the song an entirely uneasy feeling, there is a method called chromatic scales where you use every note in the scale all 12 notes, and it's a style of music that is without scale. there are no chords exactly because it's just random notes.
you have heard this sound before, it's used in horror movies and such, and it usually done as plucking on violins or cello and grows louder. so the pitch is all over, and random, almost like white noise, but the volume growing is what actually cases the movement, unlike with scales and chords, which the tone causes progression.
all those random notes still cause chords to happen since each note is played and the next one after. you can make a chromatic scale sound happy or sad depending on which notes you picked.
so the main thing that you need to understand is that you can't make a tune without doing a chord. it's impossible. chords are happening any time notes are played off. so you should learn about them, because
NO you cannot make a tune without doing chords.
YES you can make a tune with out having notes overlapping and making chords.
the only way you could do that was if you had something like a solo accapella. or if you had only the bassline and the drums the entire song.
if you had a bassline and a lead synth, any notes they play together is a chord. and that's not one after another. so i guess yea, make a song with only the bassline.
but why?
Chord are inherit in nature, chords come from scales, scales come from natural harmonic resonance. we tune are scales different the perfect harmonic resonance but only so that all the notes can be played in different scales.
there is different tunings of the 12 note scales for this reason. if you look into middle eastern music like indian music you'll find they have different tunings in microscales. this is minute changes in their scales, that varies from our rigid 12 note scale. we take for granted the 12 note scale. they have hundreds of scales that are not perfectly tuned like ours.
frankly this should answer it, unless you have an angle you want to go for. like apurpose. if you want to do a song soly for making a song that has no chords go for it. if you want to make a song that has nothing but 4 notes chords go for it. if you want a song that has no chords in the build up and big chords in the drop DO IT.
there are no rules. you can make a drum and bass song using only recordings of farts.
...
i guess i could just said that in the first place and let it be, but i wanted to help enlighten you a bit.
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Originally posted by Digital Cause
I get what your saying. My question in the most basic form is:
Can you compose a tune with just single notes, and using no chords. (forget about notes in sequence being "chords")
: )
if you have more then one instrument then it's a chord when they both play together.
No, it is not. They have different timbres and different harmonics. What if they play the same note, that counts as a chord, too?
The rest of your response is quite good and motivating.
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i agree a chord is only harmonic if two or more notes of the same timbre are played i wanna also point out inverted chords i think they are worth lookin up because it is easier to make good sounding chord progressions. i will try and explain this but i dont know how well u lot will understand. so the theory is that say u find three chords u like and make a basic pattern out of them even if they dont go that well together u can make them fit by inverting them to make them sound more musically correct so to speak lol i will upload a link to an rns that will show u better than i can explain as well. so say u want a c major chord to sound twice then a d major chord then an a major chord they may sound ok on there own but something just doesnt sit well with them so if u drop the a majors e note (perfect fith ) down an octave ( known as being in the first inversion) then the a mojors c sharp down an octave ( known as being the second inversion ) and continue this until all your chords are sitting in a similar octave they will sound much more musical. sorry if the explanation is shit i will upload an rns or midi file showing an inverted chord progression.
there is the link for a quick rns i made showing these inversions though im probably shure most of u know about this. the first clip is the chords c major, b major, e major, e major, g major, d major. second clip shows the second and fith chords in the first inversion ( thats b and g major) the third clip shows the second chord (b major in second inversion. it may not be to every1s tastes but its a subltle way to get a good chord progression and i use em in pretty much all my tracks since i learned bout em because its so easy to come up with good sounding progressions. anyways hope this was of some help. peace. oh if u just keep inverting until they sound right u can mash together pretty much any chords with pretty good outcome.
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by demure: 22-02-2009 01:41.
i just realised an rns isnt much good if u on fruity or cubase lol anyway heres a midi and an audio file the audio file has a demo of inverted chords within a track and it aint masterfull but will giv ya an idea how they sound
I found that the best way to make progressions is to take, for example, 3 notes per chord, and then make chords which have all those 3 notes in the same scale.
For instance, if we work in C-Dur scale, and want to have 3 chords which will have key note C, D and E, then you make three chords like this:
3/4
C-dur (comprised of C, E and G notes)
D-mol (comp. of D, F and A notes)
E-mol (comp. of E, G and B notes)
all sitting in the same scale.
This is a kind of natural progression. If you want happy sounding piece, you find all Major/dur chords within a scale, and use only them, or use them as main chords with variations of mol/minor chords.
For example, C-dur, G-dur and F-dur will make happy piece of music.
C-dur, F-dur, D-mol and G-dur will also make happy piece of music, but more dynamic.
The same principles with minor/mol chords...
just a small piece of the music theory which I discovered by myself and which eases the things a lot for me.
I have no clue about 5ths and 7ths tho
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