Originally posted by Yawn
in all seriousness though, don't you think that a child raised by two gay men, will miss what is most instinctivly natural to them - a mother? Especially in the case of a surrogate - when the child has just spent 9 months in the womb - it's then the natural transition for the it, during one of the most important periods of time in its life, to stay close to its mother & feed from her breast. This is the way that is intended by nature. Do you think that every child should have the right to a mother?
Don't get me wrong though, Im not against gay families adopting children. I believe that good parents and loving families are those things regardless of gender and orientation. I'm also sure that there are many gay families who give their children much better lives than many hetro families.
But part of me still feels that a child needs its mother. What do think?
I agree with you on this. But if you have to choose between a youth as an orphan in some home (no matter if your parents are dead or not able or willing to take care of you) or a youth with a gay couple who want to give you a warm home I'd go for the second option.
This whole adoption thing isn't all that black and white either, mostly a married person discovers he or she is gay, ends the straight relationship, starts a gay releationship and the kid(s) from the previous relationship won't just disappear. So it happens quite often that the kids end up (part-time) with the gay parent and the new partner. If you want to create a safe environment for such a child it is good if the new partner can adopt them.
I'm not saying this is THE solution and that it is always working, but the posibility should be available and the kids should be able to choose too.
If someone on here believes that a gay couple raising kids will make them gay, then I can only ask you: how do straight couples make gay children? Did they give them barbie dolls? I'm pretty convinced that people are born straight or gay, just like one is born left or righthanded.
I myself am lefthanded, never had any problems with it, nobody made a big deal out of it, but my mother (who is also lefthanded) got beaten on her hand when she tried to write with it in school. It's all about accepting really.
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Originally posted by techlogix
me and a freind spitroasted the same girl 2 days later lol
did you hi-five each other lol??
two of friends of mine allegedly spitroasted a 40 year old woman at butlins in bognor regis....
and apparently she had to stop them and tell them that their constant hi-fiving each other was putting her off
I agree with you on this. But if you have to choose between a youth as an orphan in some home (no matter if your parents are dead or not able or willing to take care of you) or a youth with a gay couple who want to give you a warm home I'd go for the second option.
This whole adoption thing isn't all that black and white either, mostly a married person discovers he or she is gay, ends the straight relationship, starts a gay releationship and the kid(s) from the previous relationship won't just disappear. So it happens quite often that the kids end up (part-time) with the gay parent and the new partner. If you want to create a safe environment for such a child it is good if the new partner can adopt them.
I'm not saying this is THE solution and that it is always working, but the posibility should be available and the kids should be able to choose too.
If someone on here believes that a gay couple raising kids will make them gay, then I can only ask you: how do straight couples make gay children? Did they give them barbie dolls? I'm pretty convinced that people are born straight or gay, just like one is born left or righthanded.
I myself am lefthanded, never had any problems with it, nobody made a big deal out of it, but my mother (who is also lefthanded) got beaten on her hand when she tried to write with it in school. It's all about accepting really.
totally, I'm sure there are thousands of wonderful loving families with gay parents and the children are perfectly ok. although I do think that perhaps growing up they may be more at risk of being teased or bullied at school if people know about their parents sexual orientation and it can throw up issues that perhaps other children wouldnt have to deal with at such an early age.
I read an article that stated that children who were raised by gay parents were 19% more likely to become gay than children of hetro parents who were 4% likely to become gay. I'm pretty sure that this study is not conclusive and I'm not quite sure how these kind of statistics can be measured.
As for being left handed, I am and I did feel at certain times throughout school that life was more difficult for me (only slightly) but like your mother, my great grandmother was also subjected to that, which is essentially quite serious mistreatment.
Originally posted by techlogix
me and a freind spitroasted the same girl 2 days later lol
did you hi-five each other lol??
two of friends of mine allegedly spitroasted a 40 year old woman at butlins in bognor regis....
and apparently she had to stop them and tell them that their constant hi-fiving each other was putting her off
you can also play patty-cakes.
__
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quote:
Originally posted by Yawn
quote:
Originally posted by techlogix
me and a freind spitroasted the same girl 2 days later lol
did you hi-five each other lol??
two of friends of mine allegedly spitroasted a 40 year old woman at butlins in bognor regis.... Hihi and apparently she had to stop them and tell them that their constant hi-fiving each other was putting her off ROFL
you can also play patty-cakes.
funilly enough i think that was pretty much the vibe of my encounter lmao
Originally posted by Yawn
I'm sure there are thousands of wonderful loving families with gay parents and the children are perfectly ok. although I do think that perhaps growing up they may be more at risk of being teased or bullied at school if people know about their parents sexual orientation and it can throw up issues that perhaps other children wouldnt have to deal with at such an early age.
This is an often heard issue, but when I was in primary school there was a boy with a gay dad and everybody knew it. Nobody made a point out of it though because the boy was self confident and mentally strong. If you are a loser-kid with low self esteem you'll be made fun of, no matter what they'll have to pick at, you will get it. I've seen kids being humiliated because they were wearing to different socks, wearing glasses, having red hair,.... bullshit like that.
quote:
Originally posted by Yawn
I read an article that stated that children who were raised by gay parents were 19% more likely to become gay than children of hetro parents who were 4% likely to become gay. I'm pretty sure that this study is not conclusive and I'm not quite sure how these kind of statistics can be measured.
I guess that kids who grow up in an environment where it is "ok to be gay" have less of a problem to admit that they are. There are tons of gay people growing up in a gay-hating environment, resulting suicide, depression, mental problems or in straight relationships which then suck big time. Of course they needed to have a couple of children to prove their straightness which then are forced to accept the shit going on between their parents and the eventual divorce.
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This is an often heard issue, but when I was in primary school there was a boy with a gay dad and everybody knew it. Nobody made a point out of it though because the boy was self confident and mentally strong. If you are a loser-kid with low self esteem you'll be made fun of, no matter what they'll have to pick at, you will get it. I've seen kids being humiliated because they were wearing to different socks, wearing glasses, having red hair,.... bullshit like that.
I think that this is pretty much a part of growing up and being at school, I'm sure everybody at some point is in that situation, either as the victim or as the bully. I certainly remember experiencing being on both sides. Once I got to secondary school past about 13 myself and my group of friends were somewhat outcast from everybody and people just left us a lone and we left them alone. We were more interested in getting stoned outside school gates than anything else
quote:
Originally posted by BattleDrone
I guess that kids who grow up in an environment where it is "ok to be gay" have less of a problem to admit that they are. There are tons of gay people growing up in a gay-hating environment, resulting suicide, depression, mental problems or in straight relationships which then suck big time. Of course they needed to have a couple of children to prove their straightness which then are forced to accept the shit going on between their parents and the eventual divorce.
I never knew anybody at school with gay parents but I met a girl at work recently who's father had seperated from her mother and come out as gay when she was in her teens and I think because she was older it was easier for her to deal with. Obviously when parents divorce it's never easy but I think her age and maturity meant that she was able to understand and accept perhaps more easily than a younger child.
My wife's best friend, who has hetrosexual parents, came out when he was 18 and found it quite hard. His mother was very accepting but his dad wasn't, and still isn't. He doesnt have the same relationship he had and he feels like his father doesn't really like him much anymore....
Nobody is "born" gay or straight, but it's made to be the certain way.
Genetically, you have inherited apparatus to have an erection and mental sexual arousal when there is a desired sexual object. But that's about it.
What will be that sexual object is subject to your upbringing, education and social groups in which you grew up and still are.
To translate one piece of a chat with my friend some days before, about the "gay rights":
======================================
"Hey man, if you watched the Oscars yesterday, you probably saw that Sean Penn got one.
And he was acting a role of a homosexual.
It happened several times that Oscars are given to homosexual roles.
And people accept that as something very tragic, and sympathize with their problems, discrimination and social non-acceptance.
Now I ask myself...
If someone acts the role of a pedophile and that comes off as a very tragic story, will they award him?
Will people sympathize in the same way with him?
Simply put, little children didn't give him sex, their parents wanted to kill him, blah blah blah, he suffered so much and so on...
And he dies alone.
And in sadness.
And voila! - You see people crying after such a movie.
Imagine if it had happy ending!
He to be fucking young kids non-stop.
And he will be fulfilled in that way.
Then what?
I think people don't know what they want/need anymore."
======================================
You can interpret this in whatever way you want.
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Originally posted by Muad'Dib
Nobody is "born" gay or straight, but it's made to be the certain way.
Genetically, you have inherited apparatus to have an erection and mental sexual arousal when there is a desired sexual object. But that's about it.
What will be that sexual object is subject to your upbringing, education and social groups in which you grew up and still are.
To translate one piece of a chat with my friend some days before, about the "gay rights":
I have to disaggree with you there... if I'm getting you right you would say that as a 10-year-old getting your first sexual fantasies about some woman was tought behaviour? Nobody had tought me anything at that age though, I think I would get beaten up by my dad if I would tell him I had sexual fantasies at that age
.
What would be the "upbringing, education and social groups" to make a child become gay then?
I think everyone is born with their sexuality as they are born left or righthanded.
And even nature can get things wrong, what about hermaphrodites? Or kids being born into the wrong body who display opposite behaviour at a very young age?
I see a big difference between gay behaviour and pedophile behaviour. In gay behaviour there are no victims.
Just try to imagine why anyone would want to be pedophile, constantly having to hide, abusing children, playing tricks on them, threathening them not to tell anyone, being scared, knowing you are damaging a child,...
Sure there are pedophiles who claim that they were abused as a child and therefore doing the same (stuck in the mill) but not all of them are. And there have been cases of childporn collectors who were as young as 16 (collecting pictures and movies of infants, not of same age kids).
The whole pedophile thing tells me we are a bit defenceless against sexual orientation. I never heard it is "curable" in a satisfying way, even castration (chemical or real) doesn't solve it as the craving for sex with children stays, but it turns into agression in a lot of cases. I have no solution, you think you have one because you think that the external aspects of sexuality are automatically connected to that roll if people are trained to do the right thing.
BTW: why are there gay animals then? Not just out of lonelyness or stupidity but real male-male or female-female couples. Pedophile stuff doesn't seem to exist amongst animals but then again their lifes are short and they always seem to be in a hurry to breed.
And for the issue of "overchoice". I believe gay behaviour was always there and pedophiles were always there...
You guys sound like my grandparents.
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Originally posted by Muad'Dib
Nobody is "born" gay or straight, but it's made to be the certain way.
Genetically, you have inherited apparatus to have an erection and mental sexual arousal when there is a desired sexual object. But that's about it.
What will be that sexual object is subject to your upbringing, education and social groups in which you grew up and still are.
I think people still want and need the same things they always have throughout history. It's not like homosexuality just began.... it's just more acceptable in today's society.
What about children who are brought up with two parents in a hetrosexual relationship? Children always look to their parents as role models, we do it from birth without realising. how then can you say it's upbringing makes them gay?
I still don't think it has anything to do with choices. You don't suddenly one day decide to 'go gay'
Originally posted by techlogix
two of friends of mine allegedly spitroasted a 40 year old woman at butlins in bognor regis.... Hihi and apparently she had to stop them and tell them that their constant hi-fiving each other was putting her off ROFL
Originally posted by BattleDrone
[quote]Originally posted by Muad'Dib
Pedophile stuff doesn't seem to exist amongst animals but then again their lifes are short and they always seem to be in a hurry to breed.
And for the issue of "overchoice". I believe gay behaviour was always there and pedophiles were always there...
You guys sound like my grandparents.
pedophile stuff doesnt seem to exist amongst animals !???
man you got to watch National geographic a bit more then
, they do it all the time , they just need a 'hole'
even animal motherfuckers are common in the animal world
Originally posted by Yawn
two of friends of mine allegedly spitroasted a 40 year old woman at butlins in bognor regis.... Hihi and apparently she had to stop them and tell them that their constant hi-fiving each other was putting her off ROFL
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
the worst part of it is that it was at butlins.... says it all really!
Originally posted by BattleDrone
[quote]Originally posted by Muad'Dib
Pedophile stuff doesn't seem to exist amongst animals but then again their lifes are short and they always seem to be in a hurry to breed.
And for the issue of "overchoice". I believe gay behaviour was always there and pedophiles were always there...
You guys sound like my grandparents.
pedophile stuff doesnt seem to exist amongst animals !???
man you got to watch National geographic a bit more then
, they do it all the time , they just need a 'hole'
even animal ------------- are common in the animal world
disgusting but true
gay/pedophile behaviour was indeed always here
Yeah I watched a documentary about gorillas. the alpha male will basically have sex with whichever female he chooses. he doesnt care about age. Just in, out for about 5 seconds and he's done
Originally posted by Muad'Dib
"Hey man, if you watched the Oscars yesterday, you probably saw that Sean Penn got one.
And he was acting a role of a homosexual.
It happened several times that Oscars are given to homosexual roles.
And people accept that as something very tragic, and sympathize with their problems, discrimination and social non-acceptance.
Now I ask myself...
If someone acts the role of a pedophile and that comes off as a very tragic story, will they award him?
Will people sympathize in the same way with him?
Simply put, little children didn't give him sex, their parents wanted to kill him, blah blah blah, he suffered so much and so on...
And he dies alone.
And in sadness.
And voila! - You see people crying after such a movie.
Imagine if it had happy ending!
He to be fucking young kids non-stop.
And he will be fulfilled in that way.
Then what?
I think people don't know what they want/need anymore."
======================================
You can interpret this in whatever way you want.
LOL! I don't want to start an argument here, but this 'conversation' is truly bizarre. Are you being serious?
There's no need to hide behind comments like "You can interpret this in whatever way you want" but it's pretty clear what you're saying here. Correct me if I'm wrong (and I hope I am) but it seems like you're making a connection between paedophiles and homosexuals. If you are, then please explain the connection between the sexual abuse of children and a consensual relationship between adult members of the opposite sex. Of course, there's none and there's no reason why anybody on earth would 'sympathise' with the 'discrimination' faced by paedophiles. I find it totally bizarre that you make that argument. It is totally different from experiencing discrimination simply because of your sexual orientation.
At the end of the day, where consenting adults choose to poke or rub their own organs with other people is entirely their own business. Not yours, mine or anyone else's.
__ MySpace | Soundcloud | Drumnbass.be | Facebook "It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." Carl Sagan
Originally posted by Tomos
[quote]Originally posted by Muad'Dib
"Hey man, if you watched the Oscars yesterday, you probably saw that Sean Penn got one.
And he was acting a role of a homosexual.
It happened several times that Oscars are given to homosexual roles.
And people accept that as something very tragic, and sympathize with their problems, discrimination and social non-acceptance.
Now I ask myself...
If someone acts the role of a pedophile and that comes off as a very tragic story, will they award him?
Will people sympathize in the same way with him?
Simply put, little children didn't give him sex, their parents wanted to kill him, blah blah blah, he suffered so much and so on...
And he dies alone.
And in sadness.
And voila! - You see people crying after such a movie.
Imagine if it had happy ending!
He to be fucking young kids non-stop.
And he will be fulfilled in that way.
Then what?
I think people don't know what they want/need anymore."
======================================
You can interpret this in whatever way you want.
you compared homosexuality to pedophiles?
but still, let's bring Stanley Kubrick into this shit
LOLITA
quote:
Awards
The film was nominated for 7 Awards, including an Academy Award for Best Adapted Screenplay, and won a Golden Globe for Most Promising Newcomer which went to Sue Lyon.
Wins
* Golden Globe Award for Most Promising Newcomer for Sue Lyon
Nominations
* Academy Award for Best Adapted Screenplay for Vladimir Nabokov
* British Academy of Film and Television Arts Award for Best Actor for James Mason
* Outstanding Directorial Achievement in Motion Pictures for Stanley Kubrick
* Golden Globe Award for Best Motion Picture Actor for James Mason
* Golden Globe Award for Best Motion Picture Actress for Shelley Winters
* Golden Globe Award Best Motion Picture Director for Stanley Kubrick
* Golden Globe Award for Best Supporting Actor for Peter Sellers
* Venice Film Festival Award for Best Director for Stanley Kubrick
they also usually give oscars for people potraying jews in nazi films, and people that have to deal with racism, and women liberation too...
I am going to now bring Karl Jung into the mix and say it's not PEOPLE that don't know what they need/want. it's you.
oh yeah, and the academy awards are total bullshit. there awards given by people in the industry. it's like a fucking jerk circle, it doens't matter, it's only based on what their peers think, not the majority of the movie watching populace.
basically if you're in a film that's over 3 hours long, you'll be nominated for something.
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This post has been edited 3 time(s), it was last edited by Halph-Price: 27-02-2009 20:00.
Originally posted by Muad'Dib
"Hey man, if you watched the Oscars yesterday, you probably saw that Sean Penn got one.
And he was acting a role of a homosexual.
It happened several times that Oscars are given to homosexual roles.
And people accept that as something very tragic, and sympathize with their problems, discrimination and social non-acceptance.
Now I ask myself...
If someone acts the role of a pedophile and that comes off as a very tragic story, will they award him?
Will people sympathize in the same way with him?
Simply put, little children didn't give him sex, their parents wanted to kill him, blah blah blah, he suffered so much and so on...
And he dies alone.
And in sadness.
And voila! - You see people crying after such a movie.
Imagine if it had happy ending!
He to be fucking young kids non-stop.
And he will be fulfilled in that way.
Then what?
I think people don't know what they want/need anymore."
======================================
You can interpret this in whatever way you want.
LOL! I don't want to start an argument here, but this 'conversation' is truly bizarre. Are you being serious?
There's no need to hide behind comments like "You can interpret this in whatever way you want" but it's pretty clear what you're saying here. Correct me if I'm wrong (and I hope I am) but it seems like you're making a connection between paedophiles and homosexuals. If you are, then please explain the connection between the sexual abuse of children and a consensual relationship between adult members of the opposite sex. Of course, there's none and there's no reason why anybody on earth would 'sympathise' with the 'discrimination' faced by paedophiles. I find it totally bizarre that you make that argument. It is totally different from experiencing discrimination simply because of your sexual orientation.
At the end of the day, where consenting adults choose to poke or rub their own organs with other people is entirely their own business. Not yours, mine or anyone else's.
Alright then, you largely misunderstood me.
Firstly, it wasn't my text, it was my friend's. Secondly, I concur with his opinion. And thirdly, it wasn't about connection between pedophiles and gays but between people's reactions to gay "suffering" and what not.
I mean, I am straight. That's NO BODY'S BUSINESS. I don't fuck with my girl when I go to work, I don't fuck with her when I go out, I don't do almost anything sexual when we are socializing. And neither should gays.
I mean, WTF MAN!??! GAY (PRIDE) PARADES?! WHAT IS THEIR FUCKING PROBLEM?!?
Oh yeah, I got it... NO ATTENTION.
It is as saying: "I AM GAY AND I WANT RECOGNITION FOR IT. I AM SO FUCKING BETTER THAN YOU BECAUSE I AM SPECIAL" which is fucking idiotic. And they're not special in any way.
The society relies on straight men and women that replicate and create offspring. To successfully perpetuate that, society must guide its' members socially towards sexual objects which make this happen. Females to males and males to females. And no society in this world will EVER BE GAY. Why? Because it would die out. So no society will ever support without any troubles gay people that spread the influence that "gay is ok". It is not. It is consisted of wrong sexual objects, and it cannot be transfered to offspring.
So, don't tell me again that GAYNESS is GENETICALLY TRANSFERED, because IT CAN'T BE. The only thing which is genetically transfered is the mechanism to become aroused and to fuck the sexual object of your desire. Which will that be, depends on your upbringing.
I am sick of you gays wanting public recognition. I have nothing against you if you're gay. But be GAY FOR YOURSELF. Or create a separate society where you will tolerate yourself. You won't see big tolerance in straight societies.
Oh, and, marriage is straight institution. So fuckin get rid of it. Invent something on your own. With your desire to get into marriage, you're stealing the unique characteristic of straight people. Don't act so surprised when they wanna put you on the North Pole for that.
It is something like, I wrote this book and someone steals it from me, and reaps the benefits from it. I am going to kill him.
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and apparently she had to stop them and tell them that their constant hi-fiving each other was putting her off 
. 
