 Scientific approach on the Amen Break |
BattleDrone 
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According to this (pseudo)scientific approach the Amen Break is quite special and science seems to have an answer on why we like it so much.
Is this far fetched? Is it a coincidence? Or is it mathematical proof?
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10-12-2008 12:51 |
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Muad'Dib
Andrejnalin
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Might have some connection, but I believe it's purely coincidental - no any natural 'gold ratio' involved. Looks like a quasi-math, to be frank 
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10-12-2008 13:22 |
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thechronic
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IMO it's a load of 
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10-12-2008 13:22 |
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BattleDrone
2161... the future.
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| quote: |
Originally posted by thechronic
IMO it's a load of
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You mean...
 
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10-12-2008 13:27 |
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the moneyshot
str8 outa nocash
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thats some crazy shit that is!! i enjoyed the video on there aswell.
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10-12-2008 13:34 |
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Halph-Price
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to be honest, the Golden Ratio he talks about dictates our lives more then you know. of all the "organic" feeling stuff, the golden ratio is the peak. almost all of life and humans too are created with the golden ratio. 1:1.6 roughly. makes up the length of your arms to your forearms, and all that bunk.
it does seem to make sense
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10-12-2008 14:56 |
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Muad'Dib
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Well, it might be the infinite nature of Mandelbrot fractals which describe that "Golden Ratio", which is dictated by the natural growth of the zygot into a full organism (gene translation) but I disbelieve that it should be called golden ratio and that it applies universally.
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10-12-2008 15:07 |
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Halph-Price
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ok, the golden ratio dictates what beauty is. with model their face fallows the proportions of the golden ratio, they have constructed entire masks that show the "perfect face" or the "perfect body" and it's found, usually that these supermodels follow this, or movie stars. they never follow it exactly, but usually the parts they don't follow accent cretin features that still add to their beauty. i.e. high cheek bones.
so without knowing it, humans are drawn to the golden ratio.
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| Adolf Zeising, whose main interests were mathematics and philosophy, found the golden ratio expressed in the arrangement of branches along the stems of plants and of veins in leaves. He extended his research to the skeletons of animals and the branchings of their veins and nerves, to the proportions of chemical compounds and the geometry of crystals, even to the use of proportion in artistic endeavors. In these phenomena he saw the golden ratio operating as a universal law |
not just humans, and music, but in nature, and in trees, and it's really such a major ratio because so many branches of science have it in exsistance, and if you never heard of the Golden Ratio before then your math teacher failed you, your science teach failed you, your biology teacher failed you, your art teacher failed, you your physics teacher failed you.
and that amen break follows it close, for sure.
following the humans body conformity to the golden ratio it even shows. but it goes down to the microscopic level. it's so cool.
it's not JUST about following the ratio, but also about what parts DON'T follow the ratio. like i said before movie actors that don't follow the ratio perfectly, thier parts that don't, adds character. and you just know it when you see it.
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This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Halph-Price: 11-12-2008 22:46.
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10-12-2008 15:21 |
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Lejitt
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11-12-2008 21:32 |
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Muad'Dib
Andrejnalin
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Halph-Price
it's not JUST about following the ratio, but also about what parts DON'T follow the ratio. like i said before movie actors that don't follow the ratio perfectly, thier parts that don't, adds character. and you just know it when you see it. |
Well, not to disqualify the whole 'golden ratio science', but that frankly sounds like a quasi-science.
Scientology
heheh
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12-12-2008 03:34 |
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selig
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Which part of the break are they using? It looks to me like they've just chopped a section to fit with their theory, and if that's the case I bet loads of breaks can be made to fit the golden ratio...
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12-12-2008 11:04 |
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Halph-Price
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Muad'Dib
| quote: |
Originally posted by Halph-Price
it's not JUST about following the ratio, but also about what parts DON'T follow the ratio. like i said before movie actors that don't follow the ratio perfectly, their parts that don't, adds character. and you just know it when you see it. |
Well, not to disqualify the whole 'golden ratio science', but that frankly sounds like a quasi-science.
Scientology
heheh |
it's been over 2400 years that this has been known
by da vinci, showing the golden ratio done to explain so much in this picture. this was the same drawing sent out in space on probes it has such deep meaning of humanity. it shows measurement and length and the consistence of rulers length even to this day.
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Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitruvian_Man
The multiple viewpoint that set in with Romanticism has convinced us that there is no such thing as a universal set of proportions for the human body. The field of anthropometry was created in order to describe these individual variations. Vitruvius' statements may be interpreted as statements about average proportions. |
showing that the 1:1.61 ratio helped us get the average of a constant of measurements. it's not an exact science, but it does show an average. it's not showing how each of are made, but it does show there was a basic blueprint that dictated not just how humans were made but most plant life and most life form.
THIS WAS ALL KNOWN BEFORE THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION.
The drawing itself is often used as an implied symbol of the essential symmetry of the human body, and by extension, to the universe as a whole.
so it only leads to conclusion that the "groove" that you hear in the amen, even when sped up sounds great, because that constant of the golden ratio is still heard. it's not that he picked a random section of the break, but the first and second bar. the third and fourth bar are not even as popular. he even shows the audio clip next to a human body, i have read audio clips all the time, that looks like the amen.
i am surprised you guys never heard of this...
it's funny you mention Scientology too, cuz the actor i remember hearing an example about high cheek bones is Tom Cruise. claudia schiffer, she has a face that is almost perfect to the golden ratio "mask" of the face. JUST ODD SHE'S CONSIDERED HOT AS WELL.
this is a mathematical constant with it's own symbol. probably as old as Pi. even at that long ago age not much changes in math. there's no group that tries to disprove the use of the Golden Ratio. it's as solid as Pi. there's more examples of Golden Ratio then you would know where to look. it's solid.
I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THE MATHEMATICAL EQUATION.
it blew my mind when i found out about this in science class. by the head of our science department, none the less. the calculus/physics teacher. like, this is not a crack cult.
whatever, dis-believe, there's evidence of it EVERYWHERE.
i can't say anything else other then just Wikipedia it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio
there is no conspiracy, there is no cult, there is no magic, there is no voodoo, no devil worship, although the 5 point star does show the golden ratio in it too... some say it proves a god made us, other just say it proves evolution. so really it just is.
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This post has been edited 3 time(s), it was last edited by Halph-Price: 12-12-2008 16:07.
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12-12-2008 15:39 |
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BattleDrone
2161... the future.
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I think the Golden ratio has nothing to do with it because we also like the amen when it has been sliced and rearranged or? Where would breakcore be with the Golden ratio in mind?
It is the groovyness, the crunchyness and the versatility that give the amen its power. The amen is to DnB what a Roland TB303 is to Acid house. You can do without, but it is so much easier with.
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12-12-2008 15:53 |
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selig
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12-12-2008 21:30 |
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Muad'Dib
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Dude, I completely understand the Golden ratio, but I don't understand your obsession with it.
It is a classical example of an irrational number. Like Pi.
Starting from 1, the inverse calculation of Golden ratio gives a perfect Fibonacci sequence, which, represented on a coordinate system, gives a fractal (which I pointed in a previous post). Alriiiiight, so we discovered that math is united.
Frankly, I don't like Claudia Schiffer that much. She's too plastic for me. And scientologists are idiots. Period.
The thing is, you can find any combination of any numbers, symbols, sounds anywhere because the universe seems to be infinite, thus you have infinite ways to prove appearance and "lawfulness" of your combination of these things, but that still doesn't prove you're right about that combination, it proves the universe has a common denominator. A basic building block, which is uniform.
And, if you read more carefully about music theory and chord building, you would have saw that todays' notes and chords follow mathematical definition of chords CLOSELY, but NOT EXACTLY.
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quote from: Jeff's music theory page
How do we have a playable number of physical keys on the piano keyboard, but still be able to modulate into any musical key and have the chords harmonically correct? Well, we can't. We have to weaken the last condition to having the chords almost harmonically correct. To do this, we divide the octave up into 12 equally spaced seqments (called the chromatic scale). It is the fact that the divisions are equal that enables all musical keys to equally accessible. The reason for the choice of the number 12 is that the note locations that we will end up with will pretty closely approximate the pitch ratios of the JI scale (to do significantly better requires many more chromatic scale steps).
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Which also comes in handy when explaining the influence of irrational numbers in everything, thus also in music theory.
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13-12-2008 01:58 |
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PLaGuE CeLL
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This is all very well, but he's using the picture from wikipedia when you search 'amen break'
He may have some crazy theory on it but his source material consists of the last two bars of the break, with the first half of the first kick cut off...
(Yes i was sad enough to compare waveforms)
I have my own theory which I'm sure many people will agree on:
It has a nice chunky room ambience and soft tape saturation giving it a big meaty beat, while the ride cymbal fills out the top end... very few good acoustic breaks seem to have rides in them and I think the fact that the amen has a nice wide spectrum of frequencies makes it appealing
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14-12-2008 02:57 |
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PLaGuE CeLL
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| quote: |
Originally posted by selig
| quote: |
Originally posted by Halph-Price
it's not that he picked a random section of the break, but the first and second bar |
I've chopped a few amens up in my time and it doesn't look anything like the first two bars to me.
I think it looks much more like the last two bars, minus the first one and a half kicks, the second from last hit is the crash in the 4th bar.
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I suppose i should read all the posts in a thread before pointing something out D:
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14-12-2008 02:58 |
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Crispy Liquids
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| quote: |
Originally posted by PLaGuE CeLL
This is all very well, but he's using the picture from wikipedia when you search 'amen break'
He may have some crazy theory on it but his source material consists of the last two bars of the break, with the first half of the first kick cut off...
(Yes i was sad enough to compare waveforms) |
Yeah I compared them as well and I was like "bahaa then it's based on nothing really"
But actually it is, since the ratios remain lol
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14-12-2008 11:29 |
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