 Would it worth the money to buy some hardware for mastering? |
Sundancer 
Cool Producer
Registration Date: 27-09-2008
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Hey guys!
I was wondering if would it be helpful to spend some money on some hardware compressor/limiter/maximizer/stereo expander/etc., and would that be helpful to improve the mastering of the tracks?
I saw some hardware compressors starting from 100-150Euros (going much higher for the ones with tube).
Has anybody tried something like that?
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02-12-2008 16:16 |
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Sephiroth
Master Producer
Registration Date: 11-04-2006
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id invest in somthing like the waves packages or uad plug-ins.......unless you got cash to splash on something like this: http://www.avalondesign.com/vt747sp.html
hardware is useless in my opinion unless your willing to spend an absolute bomb....id personally stick with software and only get hardware when a very big investment can be made.....i do dream of that avalon tho......used em at uni and they are immense.... 
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02-12-2008 20:28 |
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Sundancer
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Registration Date: 27-09-2008
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aha... i tought so... so it's either a state of the art compressor, either i should sitck to software instead.
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02-12-2008 23:38 |
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Muad'Dib
Andrejnalin
Registration Date: 02-12-2003
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Like they said, either invest in very expensive analog mastering hardware, or stick to software.
And I really don't know why people are so hot about analog mastering... I mean, the tracks are made digitally, they are mixed digitally, they ARE SOLD digitally (yes, they are, no matter if you buy records or CDs or mp3s. They record the digital audio onto the vinyl), BUT!... they are mastered analog.
WTF?! Analog harmonics? You can even emulate that with software if you want it so bad.
Quality? Software mastering suites are actually more powerful than any audio hardware, if you have a good computer/studio, and since you are working with digital input to digital output, you don't have quality degradation because of DA and AD conversions.
Showing off? Well, I can understand you there, because the whole world is about "analog stuff, vintage stuff, transistor lamps mua mua mua" and you can show off more easily with analog equipment (it exists in physical sense). But other than that, I see no point.
Not to be an ass here, of course, but I'm sick of it 
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03-12-2008 12:28 |
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BattleDrone
2161... the future.
Registration Date: 30-12-2005
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Muad'Dib
Like they said, either invest in very expensive analog mastering hardware, or stick to software.
And I really don't know why people are so hot about analog mastering... I mean, the tracks are made digitally, they are mixed digitally, they ARE SOLD digitally (yes, they are, no matter if you buy records or CDs or mp3s. They record the digital audio onto the vinyl), BUT!... they are mastered analog.
WTF?! Analog harmonics? You can even emulate that with software if you want it so bad.
Quality? Software mastering suites are actually more powerful than any audio hardware, if you have a good computer/studio, and since you are working with digital input to digital output, you don't have quality degradation because of DA and AD conversions.
Showing off? Well, I can understand you there, because the whole world is about "analog stuff, vintage stuff, transistor lamps mua mua mua" and you can show off more easily with analog equipment (it exists in physical sense). But other than that, I see no point.
Not to be an ass here, of course, but I'm sick of it
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Your rant against analog mastering reminds me of the "I will not buy a Ferrari" action some years ago
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03-12-2008 13:43 |
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Muad'Dib
Andrejnalin
Registration Date: 02-12-2003
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I understand the (alleged) power one feels when working with such equipment, or seeing it work, as advertising and propaganda managed to install that feeling in us when thinking about analog equipment (so you would buy it, of course). It's the same phenomena as the 'Apple' factor - people preferring Apple or wanting Apple just because of its' name and the ads, and not of the real quality vs. price ratio, and based on looks (the UI makes them feel good).
But still, I believe it's just a fuzz - nothing more.
I mean, if the end result is digital, it doesn't matter even if the whole process of creation was analog before that step, because you'll still be digitally limited on the end. You cannot record a wider bandwidth. You can only record the natural imperfections of analog equipment, which, I believe is stupid, but some people like to feel 'vintage'.
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05-12-2008 12:18 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
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mastering studios will spend what you pay for a house, on just a compressor.
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05-12-2008 18:55 |
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Muad'Dib
Andrejnalin
Registration Date: 02-12-2003
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And because of that, it's justifiable?
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06-12-2008 00:11 |
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D2o
Ghost
Registration Date: 30-05-2005
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Muad'Dib
I understand the (alleged) power one feels when working with such equipment, or seeing it work, as advertising and propaganda managed to install that feeling in us when thinking about analog equipment (so you would buy it, of course). It's the same phenomena as the 'Apple' factor - people preferring Apple or wanting Apple just because of its' name and the ads, and not of the real quality vs. price ratio, and based on looks (the UI makes them feel good).
But still, I believe it's just a fuzz - nothing more.
I mean, if the end result is digital, it doesn't matter even if the whole process of creation was analog before that step, because you'll still be digitally limited on the end. You cannot record a wider bandwidth. You can only record the natural imperfections of analog equipment, which, I believe is stupid, but some people like to feel 'vintage'. |
That is possible one of the most stupid and closed minded things I've read on this forum for some time.
You are doing what someone else does on this site and use something completely irrelevant to try and strenghten your aurgument.
The want of classic/vintage hardware is nothing to do with the want to be "cool" like that ipod crap you just spouted.
Its not propaganda at all......its the fucking sound!!!
They sound amazing.
really its not just a fuzz, its the way in which these compressors and eq's work.
And saying that just because its digital in the end (what about vinyl ffs?) doesn't mean its pointless to use analogue.
It will still imparts its characture to the sound. Just because its being down sampled and dithered doesn't mean it suddenly looses it.
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09-12-2008 12:58 |
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Muad'Dib
Andrejnalin
Registration Date: 02-12-2003
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Ghost
| quote: |
Originally posted by Muad'Dib
I understand the (alleged) power one feels when working with such equipment, or seeing it work, as advertising and propaganda managed to install that feeling in us when thinking about analog equipment (so you would buy it, of course). It's the same phenomena as the 'Apple' factor - people preferring Apple or wanting Apple just because of its' name and the ads, and not of the real quality vs. price ratio, and based on looks (the UI makes them feel good).
But still, I believe it's just a fuzz - nothing more.
I mean, if the end result is digital, it doesn't matter even if the whole process of creation was analog before that step, because you'll still be digitally limited on the end. You cannot record a wider bandwidth. You can only record the natural imperfections of analog equipment, which, I believe is stupid, but some people like to feel 'vintage'. |
That is possible one of the most stupid and closed minded things I've read on this forum for some time.
You are doing what someone else does on this site and use something completely irrelevant to try and strenghten your aurgument.
The want of classic/vintage hardware is nothing to do with the want to be "cool" like that ipod crap you just spouted.
Its not propaganda at all......its the fucking sound!!!
They sound amazing.
really its not just a fuzz, its the way in which these compressors and eq's work.
And saying that just because its digital in the end (what about vinyl ffs?) doesn't mean its pointless to use analogue.
It will still imparts its characture to the sound. Just because its being down sampled and dithered doesn't mean it suddenly looses it. |
If you read my post more carefully (joint with my previous one) you can notice that I've never stated that there is no change of the sound.
All I am stating is that, instead of buying 5000 euro analog equipment to achieve 'analog/vintage' feel/sound on your tune, you can buy 500 euros Tube distortion plug-in/software which will achieve the same. EXACTLY THE SAME. You can even choose what cabinet sound you want to achieve.
http://www.antarestech.com/products/tube.shtml
http://www.audiomastermind.com/tag/free+...reo+tube+preamp
http://convolver.sourceforge.net/
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Originally posted by Ghost
Its not propaganda at all......its the fucking sound!!!
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Not propaganda eh? Like for the vinyl? Oh, I'm sure there is a perfect argument that people/DJs actually want to spend 10 times the price of a .wav or .mp3 file of a tune, to buy the vinyl plate, just because its' sound is better (which you cannot notice that much anyway). And also, that for the weight of one vinyl you can carry like 10 CDs filled with 500 vinyl's worth of music. But no, suffer in pain while carrying 20 kgs of record plates + 15 kg turntables and give more money because of the sound. Come on.
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10-12-2008 03:36 |
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thechronic
admin
Registration Date: 01-11-2002
Posts: 5,293
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Ghost
are you a fan of the avalon?
I used to like it but have since gone off it a little. Can't get much compression going without it sound too noticable and the compression you get isnt that pleasing on the ear imo |
Lol exactly my sentiment, I have used this machine several times for mastering, but only for very slight EQ changes (low end sounds amazing on this EQ). Always tried the compressor but never used it, because it does not react fast enough and causes audible pumping.
To get back on topic: as other people said don't buy any cheap gear for mastering. But buy it for mixing! Get a cheap analog compressor (Alesis for example) and maybe a tube EQ (TL-Audio) or compressor, and use it for mixing. You're going to have good results and a lot more fun that doing it with software.
But for mastering... nope, better is to just rent a studio for half a day, then you get to chose between a dozen compressors costing thousands of euros each.
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10-12-2008 13:36 |
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thechronic
admin
Registration Date: 01-11-2002
Posts: 5,293
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Muad'Dib
I understand the (alleged) power one feels when working with such equipment, or seeing it work, as advertising and propaganda managed to install that feeling in us when thinking about analog equipment (so you would buy it, of course). It's the same phenomena as the 'Apple' factor - people preferring Apple or wanting Apple just because of its' name and the ads, and not of the real quality vs. price ratio, and based on looks (the UI makes them feel good).
But still, I believe it's just a fuzz - nothing more.
I mean, if the end result is digital, it doesn't matter even if the whole process of creation was analog before that step, because you'll still be digitally limited on the end. You cannot record a wider bandwidth. You can only record the natural imperfections of analog equipment, which, I believe is stupid, but some people like to feel 'vintage'. |
Hmm it sounds like you have not yet worked with analog my friend
It's so much easier to work with, you just have to turn the knobs and you get instant results. EQ a whole drum kit in 5 minutes. But all this convenience and sound quality comes at a price: it's more expensive, it's less flexible (no total recall, presets, snapshots, ...), and it takes up more room and a lot more cabling than a digital all-in-one unit.
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10-12-2008 13:51 |
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Muad'Dib
Andrejnalin
Registration Date: 02-12-2003
Posts: 4,197
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Yeah, ok, I admit
instant results do turn me on sometimes. But it's not worth the money, in my opinion.
__
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http://affiliate.image-line.com/BADEBDG473
There is no such thing without its opposite
-Bene Gesserit
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10-12-2008 18:45 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
Registration Date: 22-12-2004
Posts: 6,160
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to answer the question tho, it's worth the money to buy mastering software, cuz if you're multi-million dollar mastering suite ever goes under, you can sell of a unit for or to pay for a new car.
so if you got the money to buy "mastering" quality hardware, GO FOR IT. TOTALLY.
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10-12-2008 23:20 |
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DJ ANARKY
unregistered
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| quote: |
| Not propaganda eh? Like for the vinyl? Oh, I'm sure there is a perfect argument that people/DJs actually want to spend 10 times the price of a .wav or .mp3 file of a tune, to buy the vinyl plate, just because its' sound is better (which you cannot notice that much anyway). And also, that for the weight of one vinyl you can carry like 10 CDs filled with 500 vinyl's worth of music. But no, suffer in pain while carrying 20 kgs of record plates + 15 kg turntables and give more money because of the sound. Come on. |
just readin an have to jump in there-for me personally(n petty much every1 i kno) the reason i prefer vinyl to mp3 is simply the 'feel' and actually mixin vinyl-n also if mp3s cost 10 times less then surelly the artist is guna b receivin 10 times less money?
but neways bak 2 the point i agree wiv most posts-if u got mental money then buy the top hardware n if not, get a shit load of sweet software for a fraction of the price!
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18-12-2008 23:05 |
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