If you start off with a bassline that you already have written, input the notes in a program that can calculate which scales fit
Oh Man. Of course there are such programs. Why the hell I did not think that myself? Mate, you saved my day. No, Make it you probably saved my whole f****** year!
*frantic worshipping action to TheChronic's direction*
Originally posted by Aztek
That is the best crash course I have ever read on music theory.
Unfortunatly for myself Im like most of the rest of the guyz here. Ive been listening so long that I can tell if something is out of key.
Lucky ba*tards
That requires talent. I am totally out of it
I am also able to hear when something is out of key, I get this tingle on my back saying this is wrong, but then nothing happens. I do not know, where to go to correct it. My ear does not specify, which melody is out of key against something else - for example if piano and bass clash, I just get this feeling that song does not work, but I cannot make it which one should be corrected and how. For totally talentless poor suckers like me, a bit of music theory can save a day.
I know there are people who learn this instinctively in matter of weeks, but for me it's been incredibly long winding road. One of my friends is a star, even his 2-3 note trance songs have 4-6 harmonius melodies playing top of each other, end result sounds so simple and clear, but in reality it is not.
I recommend those basic courses every school in world propably gives, because they also teach you to learn things properly.
-Mikko
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by GreatFisherCat: 11-04-2007 07:46.
Originally posted by Miek
I have an interesting question for anyone who might know... how does musical theory come into play when DJs mix and double drop tunes?
For instance, some melodies seem to fit any song and any bassline, at least within the genre, is this cause all dnb uses pretty much the same scales, or is there more to it?
I'm not too sure how the theory comes into play but I do know that you cant just double drop or mix any 2 tracks together, you have to spend a bit of time finding tunes that sound good combined to do a decent mix.
dunno if its cropped up here before (didn't take the time to search this entire forum for a mention) but its a piece of freeware that goes through your mp3s and figures out what key they're in, then applies musical theory to tell you which other songs (theoretically) will fit with it, it even calculates how tempo shifts are going to fuck up the pitch etc.
took a while to do the initial analysing even on my beastly core 2, overnight job basically, but gives pretty interesting results.
the wiki on that site has some good info on harmonic mixing and musical theory, for anyone whos interested, it wasn't over my head too much and my musical knowledge is at about the general level of this thread.
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Miek: 15-04-2007 19:59.
The easiest way to make your chords when you already have a bassline is to use the first bass note of every bar (every 4 beats, just count 1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-... every count is a beat) as your basic chord. Or use the bass note that is most played in the chord.
Thanks so much for your in depth explanation this is making sense to me, what i dont understand is how can you use a bass note as your basic chord, i.e. a bass note will just be a note, not a chord, right?
ok, so are you saying that for example if the bass is comprised of three notes, then you should use a scale that includes those notes, and musically it should therefore make sense?
thanks
also, will any combination of notes from within a scale generally make sense; i.e. the purpose of a scale is to keep you playing from withing that scale because those notes just work musically together?
I would turn the problem on its head - im normally driven by my melodies and then fit the bassline to them.
Yea a good way to fit basslines is to think what notes comprise your chords - if you play piano or guitar then this will come to you quite visually.
Then write bassline notes that fit within the chords you make,
There are also standard bassline note progressions that will fit most chords regardless - these are 1-5th note, 4-5th, 5-1, 1-4, 1-7th.
- Trust your ears, if the notes dont sound right then they are probably disharmonic
thanks sstyles, i usee my ears a lot, just lately im having a bit of a block getting nice melodies and blines workin together. i have no musical theory knowledge im just starting to learn so if i could ask you what do you mean by a "standard bass progression", are the 5th 4th etc scales?
did wat you just said mean that as long as the bass notes fit a scale, then if you play a melody in that scale the bass and melody will work together? obviously all notes in the scale are harmonious, but does this kind of set in stone that whatever you play as long as theyre in the same scale they will work together?
i.e. just keep bass and melody in the same scale and its all gravy?
what i meant by "standard bassline progressions" are basically bass notes changes that will sound nice under most chords. For instance if your chord is C major chord, C minor etc ie a Chord with C root note in it then your baseline changes could be for instance...
1-5 note (C-G)
4-5 note (F-G)
5-1 note (G-C)
1-4 note (C-F)
1-7 note (C-B one octave up or down 1 note)
If your chord is a G chord then for instance your 1-5th change would be G-D etc etc
These are just modelled after some of the standard chordal progressions but do sound quite nice as bassline progression as well.
If you want some examples of these kind of bassnote progressions - have a listen to a Calibre track, he is a big of using these common bassline progressions
generally, you caa make up a scale. just make sure you use thoes same notes, you'll find out that some notes sound good and some sound EEEEVVIIILLL... but you can find out how each not sound sin comparision from each note by this
you can make a scale different going down then going up as well.
just keeping to thoes same notes, even if only on a verse, and changint he scale on a chorus, is noticable.
jazz goes into using different scales for rhythem and melodies. a sax playing a minor and the vocal doing major. nice contrast...
you can do whatever the fuck sounds good.
i rember surya song the silence, i tihnk it was or bruning, but the scale he sued for the songs was an old jazz scale, it just had the jive he thought, sounded good. had no idea he was playing any scale.
still not really understanding... thanks forf tryin though... could anyone explain what cj said but with lil more simplicity.. (i really know nothing about theory)
yes. everything will sound more cohesive. but you can change scales at any time, which is another beauty. this helps seperating different parts, if you need help or want a different or DARKER sound at some parts. or maybe the final bar of a melody you change one note, and that will give an off sound, which can be jarring and unsettling
also that link i gave you can invert the chords and it'll show you other fingering of the same chord, giving the same emotional quality but different timber... usually the first inversion will show one note an octave lower.
that can be your bass note, if you want. there's so much you can do with chords and scales alone that'll keep you going for years. if you don't understand what the different scales are wikipedia them up.
wow and thank you, you've made me have to recall all of this and i forgot. i was getting bored with music, and this always helps spice it up.
to be honest though, to get a nice DARK sound like most of dnb, use as few notes as possible. to make it sound frutiy, do a scale up and down.
to make it sound dark do the same note over and over again, and then change like one note sometimes. a third note just for total kicks. most dnb, except the jazz liquid funk stuff, goes this way. most dark music, rock included, goes this way.
the jazz liquid funk stuff uses the blue scales or minors a lot.
you can go into a whole thing about notes and thier relations. if you have one ntoe and count 4 up (i.e. C,c#,d,D#) you have the notes minor, 4 notes up is a minor. usually a sadder sound, 5 notes is a happier sound, a strong sound. an octave up, 12 notes, so you're playing the same note, is the strongest sound but it's not happy or sad t's neutral sound. 11 notes is the most jarring and it's good for like sci-fi ambience sound.
it would be easier to show if i had a keyboard.
__
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This post has been edited 3 time(s), it was last edited by Halph-Price: 30-05-2007 23:29.
30-05-2007 23:19
den_bert unregistered
Knowing the basics of music theory wont hurt :p
Its very usefull to know it, wether you use it or not. Im sure it will come in handy one day.
Originally posted by Aztek That is the best crash course I have ever read on music theory. Unfortunatly for myself Im like most of the rest of the guyz here. Ive been listening so long that I can tell if something is out of key.
Lucky ba*tards
That requires talent. I am totally out of it
I am also able to hear when something is out of key, I get this tingle on my back saying this is wrong, but then nothing happens. I do not know, where to go to correct it. My ear does not specify, which melody is out of key against something else - for example if piano and bass clash, I just get this feeling that song does not work, but I cannot make it which one should be corrected and how. For totally talentless poor suckers like me, a bit of music theory can save a day. I know there are people who learn this instinctively in matter of weeks, but for me it's been incredibly long winding road. One of my friends is a star, even his 2-3 note trance songs have 4-6 harmonius melodies playing top of each other, end result sounds so simple and clear, but in reality it is not. I recommend those basic courses every school in world propably gives, because they also teach you to learn things properly. -Mikko
Unless you are tone deaf, most people can tell when something is out of key, even with no musical experience. You can hear that it is out of key, so that is okay.
" My ear does not specify, which melody is out of key against something else - for example if piano and bass clash, I just get this feeling that song does not work, but I cannot make it which one should be corrected and how."
Well, if you are using samples (chord already made) then you would have no choice but to change the bassline a bit. Or jsut use a different piano sample. If it sounds out of tune and you are playing "C#" then try bringing it down to "C or D". The best way to make a bassline is to pitch it up an octave first, THEN once it is in key, bring it back to the lower octave.
Also, don't play only the root note of the chord. It is SO boring, no matter the genre, Blues, Clowstep, Trance, House... I like to go back to my root note to add a sense of resolution, but I stay away from it.
Lastly, I usually make my drums first, then my pads/synths, then wrap my bassline around it all.
thx thechronic! that helps me. cuz i been trying to learn some of this therory stuff around the web. if i can get a grip on melodys and writing harmonious stuff than my music will really come together.
