 Strong emotion in melody and structure? |
Hidden identity 
Wicked Producer
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This is hard to explain fully, but I'd like to talk about the "how to's" of emotionally moving/powerful melodic structures.
Any advice on building a powerful melody from scratch?
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21-04-2006 05:25 |
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Muad'Dib
Andrejnalin
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Harmony, harmony and harmony.
Use Major scales for lighter melodies and minor scales for sorrow type of melodies.
Can't realy explain it, I just put notes and see what complies with what is in my head. 
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21-04-2006 09:34 |
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TechDiff
Hetty Jakes Pretentious Cheese Wog
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I think the easiest way to capture an emotion in your melodies is to to try and incorporate modes. Modes are scales which are bassed on simple major or minor scales but using different start and finish points. For example, if you played a c major scale (c-d-e-f-g-a-b-c) it sounds fairly standard. But if you play the same scale but starting from the e (E-f-g-a-b-c-d-e) and play it over an E minor chord you'll get the mode called E phrygian which has a quite spanish sound to it. All of the different positions have completely different colours to them. Its not very complicated to learn and once you know how the scales sound its a lot easier to find the exact feeling that youre looking for.
The basic idea is that with the starting scale, C major is easiest to work out. Each step has a chord related to it. For the C its c major, for D its D minor, for E its E minor, for F its F major, for G its G major, for A its A minor, and for B its B diminished. These are basically the type of chord that the scale will work with and the also give an idea of the tonality of the scale. Whether its got a sad or happy felling. Regardless of what major key youre in this always follows the same pattern of:
Major,Minor,Minor,Major,Major,Minor,Diminished
The next bit is easy. Just play which ever chord, say F major, and play all the same notes as the c major scale but starting and finishing on the F (f-g-a-b-c-d-e-f) this is F lydian scale which has a slightly dreamy and jazzy sound (due to the sharpened 4th in the scale). This works the same for every chord in C major.
C= C major scale (C major chord)
D= D Dorian, quite dark (d minor chord)
E= E phrygian, spanish sounding (E minor chord)
F= F lydian, quite dreamy and a bit jazzy (F minor chord)
G= G mixolydian, very jazzy a favourite of jazz guitarists (G major chord)
A= A aeolian, also known as the relative minor, standard minor scale. (A
minor chord)
B= B locrian, Really nasty and sounds quite atonal, love it! (B diminished chord)
Obviously these arent all of them. You can do the same with minor scales and all the modes too. There are literaly hundred of different scales, all with different emotional qualities, but these are good ones to start with. It'll give you an easy way of capturing the kinda emotion your going for.
I dont think its worth learning all of these scales perfectly, but if you play them enough that you remember the sounds and colours. When your writing melodies you'll open up a lot more options to yourself.
Another thing worth thinking about is whether you want the tune to have a particlar vibe or a moment of change. A good example would be having a tune based around the A minor scale and then at one point in the tune to step up the emotions by keeping the melody but changing the chord from A minor to C major. This is called a relative switch because the 2 chords are related very closely, if you play a C major and then an A minor chord you'll notice the similarities. For major scales the relative minor is always a 5th up.
I dont think there are any hard and fast rules for being able to capture emotions. I just think thats its about developing you ear. Its the same as using an EQ. I bet that everybodys first attempts at mixing sound dreadful when compared to recent mix downs. This is because you've improved your ears vocabulary, you can tell when there is too much high end or whatever. The same goes with melodies and scales. You wouldn't have thought of adding a chord change up a fourth, and switching to the next major but sharpening the fourth, its just something that once youve heard it enough times, you know the option is there.
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21-04-2006 12:59 |
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Muad'Dib
Andrejnalin
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Yo, techdiff, where have you learned that stuff man? I am struggling with that for over a year now and can't get the grasp of the concept. The biggest problem is that I can't remember the building process of those modes and scales.
Can you help me out here and point me to some resources?
I have some, but not very helpful as I don't have the time to give a proper study to them.
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21-04-2006 16:23 |
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TechDiff
Hetty Jakes Pretentious Cheese Wog
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Muad'Dib
Yo, techdiff, where have you learned that stuff man? I am struggling with that for over a year now and can't get the grasp of the concept. The biggest problem is that I can't remember the building process of those modes and scales.
Can you help me out here and point me to some resources?
I have some, but not very helpful as I don't have the time to give a proper study to them. |
I think the problem with this kinda music theory is that it only really makes sence when you find your own way of understanding it. Ive been taught the same thing by many different people in so many different ways, but it never made any sense untill I was shown a method which I could understand. I guess it depends on what instruments you can play, or what your method of working is. I guess its the same as trying to describe beat slicing in fruity loops to someone who uses Logic.
In case youre interested (which youre probably not) Ilearnt classical theory from 7 till i was about 14. I got my grade 8 in theory but was bored with it by then. I started learning guitar and eventually went to collage and got my degree in contemporary music and theory. Started dicking around with computers etc etc... I also have had a lot of private tuition when I was really into my guitar. I guess it was when I was about 16 that the penny dropped an everything started to make sense. Before I could tell you the structures of scales and chordal patterns, but I never really appreciated how everything related. I had a really cool guitar teacher. I'd go to his house. Get really stoned and just Jam for hours but I learned so much from him because he helped me to understand all the crap I had learned, I guess like putting a puzzle together and the picture becomes clearer.
I think in terms of scale structure, the guitar is the easiest instrument to learn on. Because the scales are the same finguring regardless of what key youre in, you therefore only need to learn on shape for a major scale as opposed to 11 on a piano. But for Modal theory, it probably easier to learn on a piano, because once you've learned those shapes its a lot easier to alter the positions while with a guitar you've gotta learn a different scale shape for each mode.
Something easy to help though. The structure of any major scale is always the same. The sizes of the intervals from one step to the next is always the same. It goes:
Tone-Tone-Semitone-Tone-Tone-Tone-Semitone.
Basically if you where in C. The jump from the root note (C) to D is a tone, the jump from D to E is a tone, the jump from E to F is a semi tone and so on.
So if you wanted to know what notes where in E major you could use the same formula of intervals. You would end up with:
E-Fsharp-Gsharp-A-B-Csharp-Dsharp-E
Then if you wanted to know the modes for E major you just have to start the scale from a different note. So say for Mixolydian you'd start on the B and go from there ie. B-Csharp-Dsharp-E-Fsharp etc. This scale is B mixolydian and the root chord would be a B major.
Your still using the same formula as for the E major scale but starting from a different point. So instead of going:
T-T-S-T-T-T-S its
.............T-T-S-T-T-S-T
Youre just starting and finishing later on in the pattern. edit
sorry if the "diagram" isnt very clear)
Iapologhise if this isnt reall making much sense. As I said before, this is the way it made sense to me and Ive forgotten other ways I was taught it.
As fo any resorces, I cant think of any in particular, but your best bet would be to find as many different ones as possible. This way you are far more likely to find the one which makes sense to you. I expect that if you google music theory you'll find loads of stuff. Hope this helps a bit though.
This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by TechDiff: 21-04-2006 17:24.
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21-04-2006 17:22 |
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thechronic
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I once wrote an article about the same thing but a different angle, if you're interested, lookie here:
How to make melodies that fit a bassline???
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21-04-2006 17:32 |
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sssonarrr
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ok i read this trough and it's magnificent techdiff, but now i have a bit more of a specific question, you sure know 'konflict - messiah'.
if you or somebody else can say me what chord it is played in i would be a happy man because that is one massive chord, fear inflicting, gorgeous
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laborecordings
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10-05-2007 15:57 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
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11-05-2007 00:31 |
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Digital Cause
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Do any of you have no music theory knowledge whatesoever? I would love to spend some time learning this stuff but cant afford the time... I know it would be hugely useful but one isnt doomed without this knowledge right?
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12-05-2007 04:02 |
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Surya
The Robot
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Digital Cause
Do any of you have no music theory knowledge whatesoever? I would love to spend some time learning this stuff but cant afford the time... I know it would be hugely useful but one isnt doomed without this knowledge right? |
Nah, I don't, but if you know what sounds right and what you want to hear, you should be able to program that into your sequencer. I've done quite some melodic stuff in the past...
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12-05-2007 10:48 |
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Digital Cause
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cheers surya
Ill go "make some time" now
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13-05-2007 18:22 |
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thechronic
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A couple of offtopic posts split off to this thread:
Giving up the green
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14-05-2007 00:15 |
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cynik
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14-05-2007 18:57 |
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thechronic
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14-05-2007 22:41 |
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| quote: |
Originally posted by TechDiff
F= F lydian, quite dreamy and a bit jazzy (F minor chord)
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Lydian is a Major mode,and when the home key is C Major it is based around an F MAJOR Chord.
This must be a mistype, cos you got it right earlier in the post!
Sorry to be nerdy about it, but if you're gonna go explaining modes to people who do not have a solid grasp of fundamental theory ( diatonc scales, chord construction, harmonising scales) and slightly trained ears ( name the intervals in a diatonic scale from hearing them), then you should at least make sure the information you are giving is 100% accurate - it may cause problems in their learning at a later stage.
FOR ANYONE WHO IS CONFUSED / OVERWHELMED BY ANY OF THIS :-
Don't panic. Keep it simple. learn at your own pace. I know plenty of producers that write fuckin banging tracks without an ounce of theory. If its not your thing, thats fine. One of my students had a number 4 hit in Barbados a coupla years ago and up until recently ( when he started lessons with me) he had no theory knowledge at all.
Learn it IF and WHEN you're ready, if you force yourself to you may end up hating it.
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by smokymcbucket: 10-07-2007 18:22.
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10-07-2007 18:18 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
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shoot to kill.
get a book on basic music theory.
kill everyone.
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10-07-2007 20:16 |
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