 EQing the shit |
cynik 
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I tend to make one sound right (a dominant bass mostly) and build all others around it. even I know that bass shouldn't hit that certain frequency but eqing it out would make it sound less powerful, lol like you said pussy bass.
general tip for eq-ing: try to think of it as a tool for fixing something. if a sound doesn't need fixing, don't apply. sorry if it sounds patronizing in a way but back when I didn't know how to use eqing, I used to put it on a sound even before I even really heard it (eg. boosting the bass) which is very wrong.
I get the idea of making a 'setup' for any new track in which you will clearly define where is the sub, the highats etc. but it is also very limiting IMO
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09-08-2006 13:48 |
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cynik
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09-08-2006 19:58 |
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JayG
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| quote: |
Originally posted by cynik
try to think of it as a tool for fixing something. if a sound doesn't need fixing, don't apply. |
i jsut wanted to quote this : 
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06-04-2007 03:53 |
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equipped
tired
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| quote: |
Originally posted by JayG
| quote: |
Originally posted by cynik
try to think of it as a tool for fixing something. if a sound doesn't need fixing, don't apply. |
i jsut wanted to quote this :
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true true.
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06-04-2007 05:40 |
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thechronic
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| quote: |
Originally posted by BattleDrone
I was messing with EQing last night. I made a basic track containing the following things...
[Bassdrum - percussion/Ghosts - Snare] - SubBass - MidBass - Melody.
My intention was to put everything in the right place so there would be no conflicts between the instruments.
* So the sub gets a bassboost at 50Hz and a low-pass at approx 80Hz to leave room for the Bassdrum and the middBass. This makes it quite powerless, if I set the cutt-off point to for example 250HZ the sub is rocking but it eats the Bassdrum and the midBass. I also noticed that I have to keep the sub at a really low volume to avoid unwanted distortion on it.
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First of all you should do it by ear, do whatever is necessary to make it sound good. You have to pinpoint the important frequencies for every element, and make sure you don't cut them out.
Putting a low pass at 80Hz will effectively cut off everything above 80Hz, which does not leave much. As you said the sub has a big part of its spectrum above 80Hz, so don't cut it all away. Keep in mind that low-pass and high-pass filters are very drastic, they will greatly alter the characteristic of a sound. Unless you are going for a certain effect it is usually not necessary to use these filter types. Try sloping off more gently by using a low-Q (=high 'width') bell type EQ.
| quote: |
Originally posted by BattleDrone
* Same goes for the midBass. I first set an EQ on the bassdrum which got a dip in the low area untill it filters the bassdrum almost completely, this way I know where the bassdrum is positioned. Then I remove this EQ from the bassdrum and use it on the midBass instead to make room for the bassdrum. |
Very good
If this does not work, it means that both the bassdrum and the midbass have their characteristic sound around the same frequency. Bit tricky to solve, best you can do is to either change to a different bassdrum or midbass sound, or to use the trick with putting the kickdrum in the sidechain of the bass compressor, this will lower the volume of the bass whenever the kick plays, so the kick punches through. If you keep attack and release times short and take it easy on the gain reduction will leave the sound of the bass more or less intact.
| quote: |
Originally posted by BattleDrone
The midBass gets a bass boost at 100Hz and it gets cut on the low site at approx 90 Hz to avoid collision with the Sub. On the high end I needed to cut it to avoid collision with the melody. This leaves little room for the midBass thus making it a real pussyBass :-(
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Boosting at 100Hz and cutting just below that at 90Hz will mess up the sound in that area. Depending on the type of EQ you use you will introduce nasty artifacts such as gain ripples and phase distortion / time smearing. It will make the bass sound muddy and undefined.
Don't do it
If your sound really needs drastic EQ in such a tiny amount of space (we're talking 10 Hz here!) then pick a different sound.
And don't cut the high end using a LPF, just use bell EQ to cut where needed. Use the frequency finding trick you used on the kick drum 
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Originally posted by BattleDrone
* And again for the melody which is played in the middle of the spectrum I needed to use lowpass to avoid messing up the midBass and a high cut to avoid drowning of the high drumstuff. This cripples the lead and makes it sound Casio (although it's a sample from a Virus). |
Then don't do that
Use as little EQ as you can, just slapping on heavy stopband filters on every sound just for the sake of it will screw it up completely. If your lead is messing with your cymbals, start with a -3dB cut between 8-16kHz, listen if it helps, if not, try -4dB, tweak the frequency a bit and continue from there 
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Originally posted by BattleDrone
I tend to pull the frequency regions which I don't need for an instrument completely down in the Param. Equilizer, is that the right thing to do? Or should I leave them at the neutral position?
How do the pro's get such a powerfull sound without colission of instruments?
I'm not sure where I should position the snares, I cut of the low stuff and the extreme highs, maybe I should cut off more? |
If it is not causing problems, don't use EQ!! EQ will always degrade the sound in total.
Just for the sake of it, bypass ALL your EQ and listen again. You will notice a big improvement in the overall sound, with some elements sticking out like a sore thumb. EQ those elements first, and maybe you can just leave some of them unprocessed.
Another big rule is 'cut before you boost', don't go boosting certain frequencies if it is not necessary, you can usually get better results by cutting out whatever is bothering you. Boosting causes more audible phase distortion and gain ripples than cutting.
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06-04-2007 12:47 |
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thechronic
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| quote: |
Originally posted by gls
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| general tip for eq-ing: try to think of it as a tool for fixing something. if a sound doesn't need fixing, don't apply. |
I'm not too sure about that. I cut everything below 150hz on almost all sounds (obviously not the bass or kick drum) to make sure the bottom ends not muddy, isn't this common practise?
http://www.dnbwiki.com/index.php/Usage_of_Equalizers |
Only do that if it makes an audible improvement.
You can have dirty samples sometimes (eg the drummer's foot causing a thump on the hihat) so cutting out the low end can be a real improvement. For other sounds it is often not necessary.
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06-04-2007 12:51 |
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Greyone
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thanx for the input fellow producers
the best tip i learned was from thechronic
when you hear a bad frequency in a sound , search it by boosting with a small bandwith over the whole spectrum , when you find it you'll probably hear the most irritating sound ever , then cut it and the right freq will be filtered out
even better then a spectrum analyser imo and faster , but bad for the ears tho
i also had a prob with resonating frequenties , but when i read the above i guess i was because i 'forgot' to cut the unnesary freq's out of sounds , so i got muddyness that results in a red db meter
still much too learn tho , keep it up
chronic i wish you were my private EQ-master
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06-04-2007 13:05 |
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BattleDrone
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Wow, I posted this shit about 8 months ago...
I learned a lot in that time (thanks everyone, especially Chronic). I still think that EQing is a nasty beast to live with. But things are improving all the time.
I have this nasty habit of adding more and more filtering when a sound doesn't sound good whereas I should try to find out why it doesn't sound good in the first place (maybe some other thing is all over the place...).
I still didn't learn to use a Param EQ properly though. Eventually I do create these big cuts or boosts that result in crack-sounds in the mid bass... (it's a long road...)
A spectrum analyser and some good advice in real life (thanks Wicked Wayz) helped a lot too. I use the free VST Voxengo Span which does an excelent job, just check the peaks and EQ to get them down.
Thanks a lot everyone, keep them tips & tricks comming. One can never know too much about EQing 
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06-04-2007 15:52 |
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tetsuo
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06-04-2007 16:22 |
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tetsuo
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yes, 200% correct halph.. and if i remember right, you are studying sound engineering. Even more natural for ya...
I am thinking of taking 2 weeks in a sound school, one for native inst, and the other for cubase (or logic). I don't post tunes here since i am not satisfied with em!!
EQing is one of the most important proces in making sweet choon, the other massive part to me is sequencing right.
having bass/reece/lead bass soung in 3 different channel, EQued repectively (high, medium, low...) is important as well...I think, but then, once again, me not sure! 
please do correct me if i' wrong.
keep it up!!
about that sidechaining, it was about 4 years ago that i read it.. maybe changed nowaday. but good piece of advice, consedering who it is coming from!!!
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This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by tetsuo: 06-04-2007 17:06.
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06-04-2007 17:01 |
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JayG
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really i dont eq much afew things pre track and try to let keep it as is expecely if i like the sound. im more worried in lookin at get my levels right. but i guess eq'n can come in handy sometimes
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10-04-2007 00:56 |
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Halph-Price
Zombie Algorithm
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track by track t may sound good, but the focus is not on individual sounds, unless it's a solo. you EQ the shit, to get everything comeing out and stanidng out the LOUDEST possible, without overlapping to much.
the art is to bump out a bit of freq on one sound that weill help emphisize the other sounds. like the bang of the kick from the edge of the bass. or the main sound of the vocals and the snare and the lead synth/guitar. which oart of the specturm is each going to be more dominate.
it's hard to listen to one sound and make it sound not as great by eqing it and then hearing it in a mix and it sounding MINT. it takes forthought and experince.
THIS is the difference between mixing and mastering, in regards to EQ'ing. it might be hard to reall understand this if you're starting out. there's not much of an easy way to teach this other than reading what to do in GENERAL for differnet sonds. it comes down to experince and watching others, i personally think.
hell there some guys that mix that still do a piss poor job and still get hired, because it's such a hard thing to measure. you can have 1 song and 5 mixes and all of them sound differently.
these mixers are the guys in the music biz that make tracks ROCK that make songs AMAZING not the producer. he helps make the song, the mixer MAKES THE SONG GOOD. if you could see these unknown masters you'd drop on the ground in amazment.
This is in big budget productions, of course. check your favorite songs and see who mixes them. sometimes it's nothing, and in DnB it might not be that mmuch, but i know in other genere's they can be almost a co-writer in the song.
specially pop music.
later
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10-04-2007 02:10 |
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JayG
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that makes good sence i never really thought of it that way .
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10-04-2007 02:25 |
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Paracyte
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true ,they got a pretty large knowledge how to make sound "A SOUND" ,they know where to cut and what makes what in easiest way of thinking.
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10-04-2007 02:43 |
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JayG
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anyways as far as eq'n i dotn do it if i like the sound the way it is ... there is no point. but if you wanna change it a bit go right ahead. the great thing about makeing tunes is that you can do really what you want to and your the one makeing it
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10-04-2007 05:55 |
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Paracyte
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true ,but when the tune is fat ,like you've got few frequencies-eating bass lines ,its obvious you need to do something to fit kik in it 
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10-04-2007 06:00 |
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