it says yes or no. it's not a black and white issue. I don't mean you shoudl squash everything down so it's white noise, which does happen to mostly pop track. but music ingerneally does benefit from it being quashed a bunch.
there's degrees of it, i mean for fuck sakes, it's jsut stated against me, if i am for it a bit, then i am in the YES category, adne veryone else that doens't think it's great 100% is in the no. it's not a yes or no topic.
that's probably where this is getting to fucked. extremes of anything are never good, extreme comrpession the music doens't do wonder, but it will help if it's done appropriatly. usually, like i have said befor,e if just the drops is the onyl seciton that's crushed tot eh point it's white nois,e perfect, thats' what a drop is suppose to be like, and usually my build ups are not to the limit the entire time.
IT'S NOT A FOR OR AGAINST TOPIC. IT'S JUST DEBATING THE PROS AND CONS.
it bugs me not because you don't agree, but because i feel i am not understood. it was never about saying i am right, just some idiots think it is. it's about understnading.
and i never ment to amke this epic. if i wasn't trying to be understood i would have done shorter comments and just said "yes, i am right you are wrong"
I NEVER ACCUSED ANYONE OF BEING WRONG. I WAS THE ONLY FUCKING ONE ACCUSED. IT WAS NEVER ABOUT WHO'S RIGHT. FUCK.
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This post has been edited 11 time(s), it was last edited by Halph-Price: 10-05-2008 00:09.
Ordinary people would say trance is boring and fatiguing. It's because of their idea of trance, being repetitious and the same thing the whole fuckin song. But, they have the idea of a piece of music which is repetitions to the death, and that's fatiguing for them. Just like the overly compressed music.
While I prefer more dynamic sound than compressed, I do recognize the benefit compression brings to the symbiosis of all instruments within a song. And, as I said before, snappy snare most of the times sounds more alive than the overcompressed, kill-your-eardrums one. I don't refer to a quiet snare, but to a loud, snappy one.
DNB is all compressed to the maximum loudness possible, because people believe that their tunes will sound more exciting if everything is so loud. That's the whole point of very loud music - triggering your inborn defence instinct (which is sensitive on very loud sounds) you release adrenalin and you feel somewhat 'high', pumped. And that would be ok if only not every fuckin song is so loud and even in it's peaks, so that the whole 'high' thing to last as much longer as possible.
More dynamic pieces of music are also compressed when played loud - by your very ear. Accomodating for the differences in loudness, and stiffening itself so that it doesn't get damaged by wild swings in loudness, your ear compresses the sounds it gets from the environment. The more they last, the more it compresses. So, when listening to very, VERY loud music, it almost makes no difference whether the tune is compressed to the death or not.
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Originally posted by Halph-Price
it bugs me not because you don't agree, but because i feel i am not understood. it was never about saying i am right, just some idiots think it is. it's about understnading.
No, it was not about saying you're right (the conversation) but, standing for your point is saying 'I am right'.
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Do I have to be for one of them? I love stuff that's pumped and compressed, but also the one without any touch of compression. It is very subjective. I've grown up with disco/80's music and jazz/progressive rock/alternative rock so I've been influenced by both sides.
When done in right amounts, effects make magic.
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but there's another point here, that's really a major one. is that mastering is done to make the product "physicly" perfect. i.e. no clipping, because some players will react poorly to that, even causing poor audio playback. but some of the new mixes, like justin timberlake and such, when played back they go RIGHT tot he 0dB mark. this is boarder line clipping. it's an actually manufacutring flaw, like having a scratched cd. they want it so loud, that they'll go over the -0.1dB mark. that never makes sense. .3 is a good mark becasue soeme players, (older ones) have flaws at .1 even.
when i veiwed a bucnh of pop tracks in adobe audition they came up clipping, with the red light going off.
but even with sexyback going to cliping and compressed to shit, it's a pretty dynamic song because ti's so minimalistic. . . . still proving there's other ways of creating dynamis other then volume. but one tip i was told was, "to create excitment instnatly, turn up the volume." so if it's already cranked there's no way to do a easy shot by turning up the volume.
nin new song Discipline tho,it follows that rule for the chorus and jus turns up the volume. sounds like shit, it's the only thing that really defines the chorus.
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My dad studied classical composition for four years in college. He completely hates the fact that I do DnB and stopped trying to write more traditional jazz and acoustic stuff.
That being said I think music has lost a lot recently. Just like visual art is becoming less about the piece itself and more about the idea behind the work, music seems to be going from the importance of melody to the tone of the sound itself. Compression, EQ, mastering, all these factors that are so important nowadays, in my opinion, can still never make up for creating interesting melodies that flow, and have dynamics. True, it may be less so nowadays, but it will never be truly outdated.
but in music we have Engineers, there is a lot of technical stuff that is in music that a lot o "muso's" would rather it just be just "the art". but this covers more tehn just dnb, this is all of music in general. regardless if it's a 5 piece Indian band, or a basement dance producer. Britney spears and justin timberlake to goonybag and philbee.
well we discuss the more "tecnical" parts of music becasue of the nature of DnB. in comparasion to visual arts, compression is like talking about mixing your own paint pigment, it really has nothing to do with anything about a good piece of art, yet it has everything to do with the art.
eq and compression is the way to color music. strong compression is like strong contrast in art, it brings it out more. too much contrast and it's crap, it's basicly dark or light, off or on. same with comrpession.but a slight hint of contrast and it makes the darks darker and the lights brighter, making a much more envoking piece.
side note: i know a engineer working with the producers and the producer says"it needs more red" and the engineer turned up some freq, like 2k or that area, untilt he producers like "better". odd how we make music and yet depend on visual queue's. not like other art forms depend on otehr senses so much.
as for melodies, i just write random notes in locrian scale or dorian and it all sounds good.
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This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Halph-Price: 12-05-2008 07:27.
whats the biggest difference between compression and limiting ?
they both have the same effect +- , but are stil different.
when working on drums I'll use a compressor, because it offers that clippy sound, makes it sound unique at times... however, when mixing down a track, I find it easier to use a limiter (unless I'm seeking a desired effect)
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"Clownstep is a derisory term, used by certain listeners to describe a certain style in a negative way, it's not a subgenre as such, but most producers would feel insulted by the labelling of their music as "clownstep"."
Originally posted by MinasTirithGuard
My dad studied classical composition for four years in college. He completely hates the fact that I do DnB and stopped trying to write more traditional jazz and acoustic stuff.
That being said I think music has lost a lot recently. Just like visual art is becoming less about the piece itself and more about the idea behind the work, music seems to be going from the importance of melody to the tone of the sound itself. Compression, EQ, mastering, all these factors that are so important nowadays, in my opinion, can still never make up for creating interesting melodies that flow, and have dynamics. True, it may be less so nowadays, but it will never be truly outdated.
That's why I love liquid DnB so much
respect mate - and there I was thinking that I was the only one with that point of view!
Originally posted by MinasTirithGuard
My dad studied classical composition for four years in college. He completely hates the fact that I do DnB and stopped trying to write more traditional jazz and acoustic stuff.
That being said I think music has lost a lot recently. Just like visual art is becoming less about the piece itself and more about the idea behind the work, music seems to be going from the importance of melody to the tone of the sound itself. Compression, EQ, mastering, all these factors that are so important nowadays, in my opinion, can still never make up for creating interesting melodies that flow, and have dynamics. True, it may be less so nowadays, but it will never be truly outdated.
That's why I love liquid DnB so much
Use that classical knowledge in your dnb - you will work miracles
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Originally posted by MinasTirithGuard
My dad studied classical composition for four years in college. He completely hates the fact that I do DnB and stopped trying to write more traditional jazz and acoustic stuff.
That being said I think music has lost a lot recently. Just like visual art is becoming less about the piece itself and more about the idea behind the work, music seems to be going from the importance of melody to the tone of the sound itself. Compression, EQ, mastering, all these factors that are so important nowadays, in my opinion, can still never make up for creating interesting melodies that flow, and have dynamics. True, it may be less so nowadays, but it will never be truly outdated.
That's why I love liquid DnB so much
respect mate - and there I was thinking that I was the only one with that point of view!
you're shurely not the only one
this is also exact my thougts , and the truth
so be it
if you make good tunes (not speaking about soundquality) and if you have a bit of luck , then you will get there (even with a sucky sound)
if you make good tunes (not speaking about soundquality) and if you have a bit of luck , then you will get there (even with a sucky sound)[/quote]
absolutely mate, I have loads of respect for producers who use their classical musical influences in their tracks, theres just so much to them! (and this is not to the detriment of those producers who are extremely technical - that is a sick skill in its own right!)
If you look at John B for example (not sure what peeps on this site think of him as haven't seen any threads mentioning him) - but he has classical music roots and if you listen to the variety of the types of tunes he makes (or should I say USED to make like one of his first albums), musically he had so much going on, really interesting ideas.
not sure if anyone here has heard of Nitin Sawnhey (he won a Mercury music award) - this guy has his roots in classical jazz and his music is amazing, he even made some Indian Classical DnB which is amazing (not for the purists but i think he's sick).
As for me, I'm a failed amatuer musician, tried playing the keyboard as a child, gave up by the time I was 11 years old, then started to learn the guitar at 16, gave that up by the time I was 18! Always had a problem with reading music (although playing by ear was my thing), now I wish I had persevered with that, it would have helped my productions loads! But I guess I should be thankful, producing is the only passion of mine that I have pursued in life
