 Musical talent - can you learn it or are you born with it? |
Greyone 
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anyway either you got it or not thats the fact 
, no need for synthesisers just your feeling , imo ofcourse , i aint got it but i trie 
keep smoking 
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13-05-2007 23:03 |
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thechronic
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Greyone
anyway either you got it or not thats the fact
, no need for synthesisers just your feeling , imo ofcourse , i aint got it but i trie
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You're never too old to learn!!
People are not born with intrinsic melodic capabilities 
You can always pick it up, sooner or later, unconscious by listening to music or conscious by reading theory books 
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14-05-2007 00:17 |
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Greyone
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| quote: |
Originally posted by thechronic
| quote: |
Originally posted by Greyone
anyway either you got it or not thats the fact
, no need for synthesisers just your feeling , imo ofcourse , i aint got it but i trie
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You're never too old to learn!!
People are not born with intrinsic melodic capabilities
You can always pick it up, sooner or later, unconscious by listening to music or conscious by reading theory books
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uhu but theory is sometimes a bit too much of the blabla and to less of the boom boom (mieke vogels reprezent)
you need to have both , theory and feeling
cause if you only do theory it'll sound good but people will hear it got no soul , imo , its all about the details , the litle hand shifts , the right sample on the right time , touching the high note where it needs to be , im off to bed sleeptight
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14-05-2007 00:42 |
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Halph-Price
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theory can be learned, is the major difference.
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14-05-2007 00:48 |
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gls
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| quote: |
Originally posted by thechronic
[quote]People are not born with intrinsic melodic capabilities
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I don't know, for example Mozart could play several instruments and was writing compositions by the time he was five. Some people are just born a genius.
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14-05-2007 16:43 |
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Halph-Price
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he learned it from listening. not just listening but crticaly listening, where he could write the entire symphony from memory.
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14-05-2007 17:42 |
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thechronic
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| quote: |
Originally posted by wikipedia
Mozart's father Leopold Mozart (1719–1787) was one of Europe's leading musical teachers. |
He had a walking theory book in the house
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14-05-2007 18:07 |
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gls
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Halph-Price
he learned it from listening. not just listening but crticaly listening, where he could write the entire symphony from memory. |
| quote: |
Originally posted by thechronic
| quote: |
Originally posted by wikipedia
Mozart's father Leopold Mozart (1719–1787) was one of Europe's leading musical teachers. |
He had a walking theory book in the house
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If it were just a case of him listening or learning from his father then most 5 year olds with talented parents would be able to do the same. IMO you're either born with musical ability or you're not, sure you can learn theory and stuff but all the greats just have it in them to begin with.
If some of you really think you can be that you can be the next Mozart by reading a few books then fair play to you and good luck.
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14-05-2007 20:12 |
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thechronic
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| quote: |
Originally posted by gls
If some of you really think you can be that you can be the next Mozart by reading a few books then fair play to you and good luck. |
You can't compare 'reading a few books' to having one of Europe's leading musical teachers drilling music theory on your ass non-stop from the moment you are born.
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14-05-2007 22:29 |
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Halph-Price
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yea, kids aren't born with this talent inate, it's either genetic or some how influencing there life. i'd rather guess that since bethovan had an abusive father drilling his ass on music, that there may be a link between the parents.
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15-05-2007 02:11 |
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BattleDrone
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Anyone can learn I guess, but some people have a "feeling" for it - might call it talent - while others just don't hear the difference between 2 notes.
Ever been to a party where someone (chick or dude) is dancing like hell, but completely outside the tune and it's not like they are on a trip or someting, you can simply see that they are not feeling it. Well, such people would have a horrible time composing I guess.
The everlasting question is also: are you composing because you are good or are you (this) good because you are composing. There must be some need to express oneself before you would go through the pain of learning a DAW, collect samples, surf to sites like this one and talk to nerds like us to become a better musician
. Just ask yourself, why aren't you into 3D rendering or making movies or whatever (you are not into)?
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15-05-2007 07:38 |
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Halph-Price
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it's sort of like to write books you need to read a lot. music is the same. same with movies.
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15-05-2007 09:21 |
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thechronic
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| quote: |
Originally posted by BattleDrone
Anyone can learn I guess, but some people have a "feeling" for it - might call it talent - while others just don't hear the difference between 2 notes.
Ever been to a party where someone (chick or dude) is dancing like hell, but completely outside the tune and it's not like they are on a trip or someting, you can simply see that they are not feeling it. Well, such people would have a horrible time composing I guess. |
They don't have the "feeling" because they have never been interested in music. Let them take dance or percussion lessons and they will develop the feeling
Our drum tech said he had absolutely no talent for music. He couldn't even clap a basic rhythm such as x-x-xxx- or x--x--x---x-x---. So I started giving him some simple lessons. The start was really hard for him, he was very reluctant to learn and gave up too easily. But I persisted and now he can effortlessly do latino rhythms.
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15-05-2007 10:30 |
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thechronic
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| quote: |
Originally posted by BattleDrone
The everlasting question is also: are you composing because you are good or are you (this) good because you are composing. There must be some need to express oneself before you would go through the pain of learning a DAW, collect samples, surf to sites like this one and talk to nerds like us to become a better musician
. Just ask yourself, why aren't you into 3D rendering or making movies or whatever (you are not into)? |
Spot on
BTW music is 100% culturally influenced. Take 10 babies from musically talented parents, isolate them from music until they are 20 and give them a guitar. They wouldn't know what to do with it
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15-05-2007 10:33 |
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gls
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| quote: |
Originally posted by wikipedia
Mozart's father Leopold Mozart (1719–1787) was one of Europe's leading musical teachers. |
If you'd have read the rest of that paragraph on wiki you'd have seen this..
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| Leopold gave up composing when his son's outstanding musical talents became evident. They first came to light when Wolfgang was about three years old, and Leopold, proud of Wolfgang's achievements, gave him intensive musical training, including instruction in clavier, violin, and organ. |
He may well have had a walking theory book in the house but he didn't start using it until after it was discovered he had outstanding music abilities. And I'm not too sure he could've understood the theory at that age either, its more likely it just came intuitively to him. Some things really do just come naturally to some people.
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15-05-2007 12:03 |
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Muad'Dib
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Halph-Price
he learned it from listening. not just listening but crticaly listening, where he could write the entire symphony from memory. |
Not just that, he was a kid, and kid's brain learn much faster some areas because they are kinda empty and suck on information... I bet he couldn't write his name, though, or failed at maths or something...
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15-05-2007 14:15 |
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Muad'Dib
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| quote: |
Originally posted by thechronic
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Originally posted by BattleDrone
The everlasting question is also: are you composing because you are good or are you (this) good because you are composing. There must be some need to express oneself before you would go through the pain of learning a DAW, collect samples, surf to sites like this one and talk to nerds like us to become a better musician
. Just ask yourself, why aren't you into 3D rendering or making movies or whatever (you are not into)? |
Spot on
BTW music is 100% culturally influenced. Take 10 babies from musically talented parents, isolate them from music until they are 20 and give them a guitar. They wouldn't know what to do with it
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Yeah, but they might be able to find the notes and chords more easily than some other...
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15-05-2007 14:18 |
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thechronic
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Muad'Dib
Yeah, but they might be able to find the notes and chords more easily than some other... |
Nope they wouldn't understand the purpose.
Notes and chords are part of culture. And only western culture for that matter. Other parts of the world use other note scales, other chords. Or even no melodies but only rhythms.
The idea of using more than one note at the same time did not even exist in western culture 1000 years ago.
That's my whole point, if Mozart was born 1000 years ago he wouldn't been able to write symphonies because nobody could teach him how to do it. He would have used his great brain for something else instead.
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15-05-2007 14:25 |
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GreatFisherCat
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Background:
Musicality (in this context) means ability to participate on music. Be it dancing to it, understanding it, remembering it, being able to create a opinion from it, creating it, playing a instrument (accompany it) etc.
There are different levels of musicality.
Many of us say the are not musical at all, but if I play a simple melody with piano and then stomp on a toad (making a squiching sound), they are able to recognize which one was considered as music (in our western culture). That is not too high grade in level of musicality, but it is a start
We, calling ourselves musicians, we propably have a slightly higher level of musicality, but heck, it is still same abstract matter we talk about.
My Claim:
Amount of musical talent is inverserly proportional to work required to acquire a certain level of musicality.
in laymans terms:
Musically talented people learn Musicality faster. But All do learn.
Ok, off this nonsence, case closed, stop this ranting about obvious subject, do not gather around here, go do something usefull, stomp on a toad or two and make music out of it, just to prove me wrong.
-Mikko
This post has been edited 6 time(s), it was last edited by GreatFisherCat: 15-05-2007 14:56.
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15-05-2007 14:49 |
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